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Hormones: Some women go into remission during pregnancy, can we recreate w hormones?

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by anncavan, Jun 3, 2011.

  1. anncavan

    anncavan Senior Member

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    I have read how some women go into remission during pregnancy. Has something to do with a certain part of their immune system getting shut off as to not attack this new, foreign object in their body.

    Is there a way to "trick" our bodies, through the use of hormones, into thinking we're pregnant? With the possible outcome of going into CFS remission?
     
  2. illsince1977

    illsince1977 A shadow of my former self

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    And some of us get worse during pregnancy. For me my illness began during pregnancy, and subsequent pregnancies worsened it. This seems to be rare, but I know (not personally, but through the forum) of at least a couple other women for whom this has happened.

    I hope my mentioning it will elicit comment from them.

    Of course, if you're "tricking" your body, termination is a much easier matter. However, you may not get the desired result of remission.
     
  3. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    True that some do better and some worse in pregnancy. But pregnancy affects not only hormones but other things like blood volume. It might depend on which issues are your achilles heal(s)!

    Sushi
     
  4. Hope123

    Hope123 Senior Member

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    If you google for the New Jersey CFS Association they have an article about pregnancy and CFS and as mentioned above, some people get somewhat better during pregnancy but others don't have any change or get worse. However, post pregnancy, many crash due to probably biological changes, increased activity due to a baby, etc.

    Some women with CFS have increases in their symptoms cycling with their periods and I have heard some docs putting women on birth control to help with managing the symptoms better. I've heard some rhuematologists who do this for their non-CFS patients. But it may or may not help depending on your individual circumstance and the particular dosing/ regimen of birth control pills.
     
  5. lizw118

    lizw118 Senior Member

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    I have posted this on other threads, but I have had extremely beneficial effects from taking relatively high doses of estriol cream (like 6-8 mg per day). I discovered this sort of by accident, but I tried it because I had read that estriol in those doses helps people with MS. It is a type of estrogen that pregnant women make a lot of in their last trimester of pregnancy. One theory is that the estriol turns off the immune response so that the immune system will not attack the fetus as a foreign invader. The estriol helped my nervous system symptoms, like POTS really dramatically and it lifted all of my depression.
    Currently it no longer has this effect on my because a doctor switched my thyroid meds and I developed RT3 and a resistance to the meds I originally took, so now I have to take high doses of cytomel which raises a globulin that binds with sex hormones, rendering them less free in the blood, and less effective. I am really sad about this because the estriol was like a miracle for me when I started it. I still take estriol but it doesn't have the effect it did before I went higher on cytomel and on hydrocortisone. Of course one has to be very careful taking any type of estrogen unopposed. I have to watch my periods for extra bleeding or heavy bleeding. I cannot take progesterone because it literally makes me suicidal. Strange.
    Liz
     
  6. Sallysblooms

    Sallysblooms P.O.T.S. now SO MUCH BETTER!

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    The best thing for our bodies is to be tested for all hormones. They all work together. For bones, eyes, heart, muscle etc. Not just taking one thing. I take triest, progesterone, and testosterone gels. Also 7keto DHEA, pregnenalone and thyroid. Balancing it all, bio identical so our bodies know what to do with them.
     
  7. Hope123

    Hope123 Senior Member

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    The main issue with taking estrogen only is that it puts you at a higher risk for uterine cancer. Hence, one has to discuss this carefully beforehand with your doc.

    Estrogen cream is different from pills in that the amount absorbed is less than that taken orally.
     
  8. Sallysblooms

    Sallysblooms P.O.T.S. now SO MUCH BETTER!

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    Not being balanced with the correct type is the problem, estrogen dominance etc. Just finding the right doctors is key. Most do not understand how to balance and use the correct types. It all needs to be with a good doc. for sure. Thankfully, I didn't stick with the first doc. She was just a gyn. and knew nothing about hormones, just the old studies about synthetic premarin etc.
     
  9. lizw118

    lizw118 Senior Member

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    My main problem with doctors who specialize in hormones is that they tend to want to dose people with progesterone a lot, which is good for some, but not for all. Estrogen has been given a bad reputation due to studies with horse estrogen.
    It is definitely important to be careful with estrogen as it can lead to uterine lining proliferation,uterine cancer and breast cancer, BUT, for some women, estrogen can be healing and progesterone can be toxic. I hope that over time some doctors figure that out. Not every woman is estrogen dominant. Progesterone literally makes me feel as though I have been poisoned. I also think that estrone levels are the ones that lead to cancer most readily. Estradiol is converted to estrone, but estriol takes a different pathway. I still think estriol can proliferate the uterine lining though, if used in excess. I believe woman need to get in touch with symptoms of excess estrogen while supplementing it, like tender breasts, break-through bleeding, etc.
     
  10. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1

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    As they dont know why some improve while pregnant, it may be hard to replicate artifically the why of it.

    Pregnancy not just changes hormones but as Sushi said, alters blood volume. That may be the whole reason why some of us improve during pregnancy as nearly all of us do get POTS with the ME/CFS.

    Ive also read that our improvement may be due to extra blood filtration we get during pregnancy as the placenta acts like a filter.
    .........

    Me too. I ended up in a mental hospital for a whole week, just after I started taking a progesterone only pill for birth control, (I nearly killed myself and almost took my childs life too as went to throw myself over a bridge into a river with her in my arms but was stopped. This pill made me believe I needed to kill my child too)... and got better when I stopped it the hormone. They wrongly diagnosed post natal depression but I know it wasnt that due to the timing and I was good again once stopped (so didnt even end up having to take any drugs for PND).

    The progesterone pill started to make me feel strange after less then 24 hrs after taking it and with every day on it I got worst and within 5 days of starting it I was a real mess and within 2 weeks was extremely depressed and feeling completely crazy and in hospital under a 24hr watch due to it, due to it all.

    Ive since come across 4-5 others at a medical site who had severe mental health reactions to progesterone pills too so it seems this may not be an uncommon issue at all but one doctors dont realise is going on. Fortunately one goes back to normal fast when one stops taking it.

    (No doctor after that was willing to have me on progesterone again till 20 years later when I tried this time natural progesterone which the compounding chemist made up.. the natural form rather then the synthetic form.. seems to be okay in my case and didnt cause any bad symptoms at all. (Thou didnt help any symptoms either. I tried natural progesterone as I have an issue with estrogen dominance so have Polycystic ovary syndrome and the progesterone was to try to balance up my hormones)
    ..........

    I dont suggest for anyone to mess about with hormones unless tests show low levels or to correct hormonal imbalances tests are showing. They can have extreme bad effects on some. (I didnt even have ME/CFS back then when I got that bad reaction).
     
  11. anncavan

    anncavan Senior Member

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    Great discussion. Thanks for all the ideas, stories, thoughts!
     
  12. lizw118

    lizw118 Senior Member

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    > Me too. I ended up in a mental hospital for a whole week, just after I started taking a progesterone only pill for birth control, (I nearly killed myself and almost took my childs life too as went to throw myself over a bridge into a river with her in my arms but was stopped. This pill made me believe I needed to kill my child too)... and got better when I stopped it the hormone. They wrongly diagnosed post natal depression but I know it wasnt that due to the timing and I was good again once stopped (so didnt even end up having to take any drugs for PND). >>

    Tania, this sounds so awful! I am so sorry. I have read that one can make antibodies against certain hormones like progesterone. I wonder if something like that is going on in our bodies. It's strange that you need progesterone based on blood levels, yet you react so negatively to it. That is what confuses me about this type of thing. How can a body need something, yet react so poorly to it? I had the same poor reaction on bioidentical progesterone. It just made me incredibly sick both physically and mentally. I wish I understood why. I am glad that at least you seem to be able to tolerate the bioidentical kind.
    Hormones are very powerful indeed.
    Liz
     
  13. TheMoonIsBlue

    TheMoonIsBlue Senior Member

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    My menstrual cycles are horrendous. I recently tried an herbal Progesterone supplement. I haven't noticed any change yet.

    Pre-Menstrual, I literally am unable to keep my eyes open more than several hours a day sometimes. I feel drugged, and about 80% unconscious. I get muscle pains and sweating and insomnia and wild mood swings.

    My hormone saliva results only showed that my progesterone estrogen balances in in "moderate favor of estrogenic dominance" although progesterone within normal range. DHEA actually a little elevated. Testosterone normal.

    It must be hormones acting on some virus. I'm almost to the point where I'm considering trying BC pills again but I've afraid they are going to make me mental.

    I wish I could stop my cycle completely.
     
  14. lizw118

    lizw118 Senior Member

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    <<My menstrual cycles are horrendous. I recently tried an herbal Progesterone supplement. I haven't noticed any change yet.

    Pre-Menstrual, I literally am unable to keep my eyes open more than several hours a day sometimes. I feel drugged, and about 80% unconscious. I get muscle pains and sweating and insomnia and wild mood swings.

    My hormone saliva results only showed that my progesterone estrogen balances in in "moderate favor of estrogenic dominance" although progesterone within normal range. DHEA actually a little elevated. Testosterone normal.

    It must be hormones acting on some virus. I'm almost to the point where I'm considering trying BC pills again but I've afraid they are going to make me mental.

    I wish I could stop my cycle completely.>>

    My luteal phase (premenstrual time period) used to be horrible too. All of my symptoms, from depression to inflammation, would get worse. I attributed this to the rise in progesterone at that time in the cycle. My luteal phase is more even now because I am on hydrocortisone and cytomel which have changed (lowered) my hormones. Now I just feel lousy all the time instead of the second half of my period!
    Your theory about certain hormones activating a virus is really interesting. I wish more research would be done on hormone cycles. I feel that there is so much unknown about women's hormonal changes, particularly. I actually did try and go on a birth control for a while. It didn't really help that much, and I just felt like I would be in big trouble years down the line when I would have to go off of the pill. I think that would have thrown my body into crisis. So I decided instead to supplement small amounts of bioidentical hormones, dhea, thyroid, etc. Of course I have not found the perfect balance yet, so who knows what the right strategy is! It sure is hard to figure it out.
    Liz
     
  15. Sallysblooms

    Sallysblooms P.O.T.S. now SO MUCH BETTER!

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    Dr. Dzugan's program is good because you get the testing, questionaire and then you take the bioidentical compounded hormones he prescribes. Then you give feedback as often as you like. That is how I got it all working/balanced. It does take a lot of tweaking. Not a cheap program, but worth every dime and so effective to use him.
     
  16. Sherlock

    Sherlock tart cherry etc. for joints, insomnia

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    Ann, this might be what you're looking for, a review on using diamine oxidase (DAO), which is an enzyme, not a hormone, but maybe interacts with estrogen:

    http://humupd.oxfordjournals.org/content/14/5/485.full

    Effects of histamine and diamine oxidase activities on pregnancy: a critical review 2008

    For at least some with CFS, histamine is elevated, and the extra might exceed a person's ability to cope with it. DAO breaks down histamine.

    I have also seen discussions of non-CFS women with problem pregnancies taking DAO. For example, in autoimune conditions with out-of-control Natural Killer Cell activity that threatens to kill the baby.

    As fate has it, there is a thread on DAO right near to your thread:
    90% cured from bed bound with Histrelief / Histame / Daosi
     
  17. anncavan

    anncavan Senior Member

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    Sherlock
    Great find!!! I'll dig in and see what I can learn :)
    Thank you!!!
     

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