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Homozygous VDR Taq, MAO-A R297R, & MTRR A664A

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by acrosstheveil, Apr 29, 2014.

  1. acrosstheveil

    acrosstheveil Senior Member

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    MTRR A664A: I have read everything I can find about this mutation and I am still kind of confused on how to approach it. I'm obviously not approaching it correctly as I still feel terrible. I understand that I need increased methylcobalamin with this mutation, but how much? I also read I may or may not to be supplementing hydroxycobalamin; if so, how much per day? And this mutation prevents me from converting homocysteine to methinonine, so should I supplement l-methionine? I also read that supplementing l-methionine increases homocysteine levels...and that is not good.


    I also have the VDR Taq and MAO-A R297R homozygous mutations. I know I need Vitamin D for VDR Taq but I can't find anywhere that talks about dosages. I am currently taking 10,000 iu per day. Should I try 25,000 IU or more? And for the MAO-A R297R, I guess I need to be supplementing 5-htp or St. John's wort but also read that this mutation INCREASES neurotransmitters because the body can't break it down fast enough.

    How does it make sense to add additional 5-htp if the body isn't already breaking down my neurotransmitters fast enough?

    Please, anyone who has experience with these homozygous mutations, I could really use your help! Thanks.
     
  2. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    @acrosstheveil I can only make a half-way intelligent comment re MAO. I used to use tryptophan, then 5HTP. Eventually the 5HTP became unhelpful. This was before I knew anything about anything! I was also using denatured whey and D-Ribose. The combination was excitotoxic, bad news. I've now been happily using lithium orotate for a year. Yasko recommends this to help w/ the rapid recycling of neurotransmitters, and it's been very helpful to me.

    Re Vit D, I'm using Thorne drops in small amounts. And I'm currently using MB12 in what would be considered mega doses. I've progressed along the path very slowly, following Freddd's Protocol with excellent results. I'm linking a really useful FAQ created by Eric/howirecovered for methylation protocol.

    I would have been lost if i wasn't using self-testing to determine my dosages of all my supps. Caledonia has recommended the following vid re self-testing. I was fortunate to learn the technique just as I was falling into ME/CFS, so have had a long time to become confident with it. I'm aware it's yet another thing to add to the list of things to learn. It seems to go on and on. Wish I could be more helpful. Best to you, ahmo

    Self-testing http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Ex59wHLk3Q0

    http://howirecovered.com/active-b12-therapy-faq/
     
  3. acrosstheveil

    acrosstheveil Senior Member

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    i've been using lithium orotate as well at night. How much do you take? I have lyme disease as well and i hear it is good to protect against neurotoxicity.
     
  4. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    I didn't know that about Li and neurotoxicity. That explains why I've been self-testing for high amounts as I've been detoxxing. Before the detox I'd been using 5 mg 1-2 times a day, can't really remember now. During this intense period I've used 10 mg 3x/day. A lot. I'm finishing that intense period, hopefully today, will see what my needs are then. Probably something around 5 mg AM/PM.

    Do you know of Klinghardt's lyme protocol?
    Klinghardt: Autism, Lyme, Pyroluria
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-z3kRDYcvhA

    Short Version (36pg) Pyroluria/Lyme protocol. From Powerpoint doc used during Klinghardt presentation: Lyme Induced Autism
    http://www.lymeinducedautism.com/images/1_KlinghardtKPU_09_PX.pdf
     
  5. acrosstheveil

    acrosstheveil Senior Member

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    i have heard of it but have never strictly followed it. I have been taking about 70mg of p5p and 60mg of zinc picolinate for a long time now. 250mg a day sounds like a ton! should i up my zinc picolinate dosage? what is the long term recommendation for zinc dosing ?
     
  6. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    I used 200mg zinc for some months. I then seemed to have a massive metal dump, and reduced it to 50mg. Now I've been in full on detox mode, taking about 200 on those days, 50 on my days off. Klinghardt describes how the metals get into all the places where z should be, we need to displace them again. But I now know that if you're going to detox, or do something that might stimulate detox, you need the other supports in place to bind and move those things out of the body. Like chlorella, clay, and so on. Also needs for selenium, manganese, molybdenum, and of course, mg and K+. Gotta go now, can add more if you want later. cheers
     
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  7. acrosstheveil

    acrosstheveil Senior Member

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    i was reading the klinghardt protocol and he recommends high dosages of manganese (like up to 40mg a day). do you take manganese? I have heard in other places that manganese can be bad for lyme but klinghardt seems to think the opposite.

    also, he mentions molybdenum as well, but nothing on dosages. I have been taking 1 mg a day for a while now but always wonder if I should increase it. Potassium I have never done well on for some reason. Seems to make my candida worse for some reason. Maybe I am taking too much? I am doing the methylation protocol and I understand potassium is recommended but I just have not been able to tolerate it well. It is frustrating because most people report feeling much better with increased potassium intake.


    clay is always a lifesaver when I don't know what to do. I order pascalite 6 lbs. at a time. It seems to be the best bang for the buck that I have found. And chlorella is awesome of course. I take at least 8 tablespoons a day.

    I upped my zinc uptake last night and I think I felt better. I am taking even more today. I plan on taking 180mg by the end of the day.
     
  8. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    I take manganese, currently in form of mang biglysinate from Thorne (iherb). Mang should be taken away from Zinc. Excellent you're already feeling better w/ increased zinc. I take molbyd, per self-testing. 150mcg AM/PM, more when detoxxing.

    Wow, 8 Tb chlorella. that's great! I don't know whether the K+ bothers your gut, or otherwise. If so, you could take it by footbath, which is how I now take many of my supps. I don't know so much about candida, but I certainly use a lot of K+ w/ methylation protocol, needing temporary extra dose when increasing folate. I'm taking typically about 750mg BID.

    Have you watched the Klinghardt vid? I only used his written protocol for months, only recently watched the vid. I was super impressed. I'm also linking some longer docs of his, I haven't read them. cheers.

    A Treatment Guide: Lyme and Other Chronic Infections (92 pgs) D. Klinghardt MD, 2009
    http://www.klinghardtacademy.com/images/stories/powerpoints/treatinglyme 2010.pdf

    Lyme Induced Autism 80 pg doc; comprehensive discussion, charts, thermal images
    http://www.lymeinducedautism.com/images/KlinghardtLIA_II.pdf
     
  9. acrosstheveil

    acrosstheveil Senior Member

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    haha, yea took me a while to build up to that amount. I take it all at once! sometimes i even take up to 16 tbsp a day when I'm really miserable. If you combine it with hemp oil it seems to help remove more neurotoxins I have noticed. I know fish oil does the same thing but hemp oil is much tastier and cheaper in bulk.

    I may try the potassium again and give it another shot. I know sometimes it seems candida gets worse before it gets better. I have potassium chloride...i hope that is a good form to take.

    I have yet to watch any of his videos but I read his full protocol and the presentation you sent me the other day. I'll check it out sometime when my brainfog isn't too bad.
     
  10. Indie

    Indie

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    @acrosstheveil
    Does your potassium supplement have citric acid in it? A number of people, including me, get candida symptoms when taking supplements with citric acid.
     
  11. acrosstheveil

    acrosstheveil Senior Member

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    Dont think so. It is potassium chloride. B i dont do well with citric acid either. I hear some citric acid is extracted from a type of mold and im very sensitive to that.
     
  12. HoosierMama1972

    HoosierMama1972

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    I am VDR taq +/- but also compound hetero for MTHFR. If your MTHFR can't make the NADH enzyme to help metabolize the D3, you will have excess D3 and you are putting yourself at risk for hypervitaminosis...do you have abdominal pain? Only use active D2 in cod liver oil, or do what I do and go to the tanning bed 2x a week. I don't take any D3 anymore, and I am MUCH happier for it. You cannot get hypervitaminosisD from tanning or natural sunshine, so I figure this is the safest route for me. Melanoma is rarely deadly. Skin cancer is not likely to get me....it's all the other demons I am chasing.

    I am also +/+ for MTRR A664A and another MTRR. the ratio I use is 1.25 methylB12 to 1.0 methylfolate. I use B-methylated II from methyl-life. The lithium orotate is good for the MTRR mutations. It helps push the methylfolate and methylB12 INTO the cells. Only use low dose 5-20 per day. Too much lithium and you will get flat and stop caring about anything!!!

    Methionine is a sulfur donor. If you have any CBS or SUOX issues, it will give you massive problems. Have you tried using TMG to short cut the cycle?

    Good health to you!!!
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2015
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  13. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    Arizona, USA
    My two cents:

    1. You really can't tell how much Vitamin D to take unless you get a blood test to see what your levels are. 10,000 IU is pretty high for most people, but it was enough to put me at about 50% of the normal range, which my practitioner said was enough. Toxicity with Vitamin D is hard to do, but it's good to stay in the normal range. Self-testing and muscle testing do not work on me, whether I do them or an experienced practitioner does them. Melanoma has been fatal in a few people I knew.

    2. Homocysteine gets recycled by two pathways, one uses methylcobalamin, the other uses TMG and is impaired by the BHMT SNPs, particularly the -08. Although high homocysteine is not good, you can't assume it's high without a lab test. The MTRR A664A is a less of a problem than the other MTRR (homozygous in my signature, not trusting my memory at the moment), and you don't have the BHMT-08. I have both of these SNPs homozygous, and my homocysteine was only at 20% of the normal range, and my methionine was below normal (about 80% of low normal). Still, it would be unlikely that increased methionine intake would seriously raise my homocysteine.

    3. FYI, Lithium has effects on the thyroid (lower T4 from long term exposure at 2-30 mg/day from all sources, in South American women) and the adrenals (increased ACTH/cortisol response but at very high doses). Ten of my 100 top SNPs, according to NutraHacker, indicate possible benefit from lithium - so I decided to try, even if the report is not all that accurate. For me, 5 mg/day makes a good difference in outlook (cheerfulness and optimism). When I stop it, I notice it. I was mildly hypothyroid before I started, so go figure. It hasn't increased my need, but my exposure has been under a year. I used 10 mg for a while, to good effect, but I find and additional 1 mg of methylfolate has about the same effect as that second 5 mg of Li orotate, and I figure it's much safer. However this could be related to my MTHFR A1298C hetero, which I don't think you share.

    4. Citric acid is part of the Kreb's cycle, which occurs in most every cell in every plant and animal. Although that's different from dumping a bunch into your body through the GI tract, and as you indicate, it could be a purity issue depending on how it's produced.
     
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