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Homozygous CBS 699T - Follow Yasko protocol?

Discussion in 'Genetic Testing and SNPs' started by Horizon, Jan 1, 2017.

  1. Horizon

    Horizon Senior Member

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    I have a double mutation for the CBS 699t. I know Dr. Yasko suggests a low protein/sulfur diet to reduce ammonia buildup.

    My problem is that I am on a paleo-like diet for my ME/CFS and take supplements like NAC and ALA which are not allowed as part of that protocol.

    I do feel better when I do not eat but my amino acid levels do not show elevated taurine like she says with this mutation.

    I am concerned about going this route because 1. I don't know if anyone gives it credibility and 2. I am on a diet that aims to use protein/fat for energy and less on carbs with the supplements boosting mitochondrial health.
     
  2. alicec

    alicec Senior Member

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    No they don't.

    Yasko's claims about this SNP have no credibility and are based on a complete misreading of a research paper.

    The SNP has little effect and what it does have is likely to be beneficial.

    There is no need to do anything about it.
     
    Valentijn likes this.
  3. aaron_c

    aaron_c Senior Member

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    Hi @Horizon

    I tried her protocol and parts of it (the low protein diet and limiting B6) did help me with a specific subset of symptoms where I would get diarrhea, feel very depressed, brain fogged, and just yucky like my blood or lymph or something was suddenly sluggish in its movement. These symptoms would also become worse in damp climates or when low pressure would roll in.

    I am now able to avoid these symptoms by using a UV-b lamp (for vitamin d--oral vitamin d caused side effects this doesn't) and about 500 mg malic acid with every meal. I no longer have to limit my protein intake (probably not the healthiest thing in the long run) although I do still have to limit how much B6 I take. I still have gut problems, but higher protein intake no longer triggers acute diarrhea.

    I do need to take a lot of molybdenum for my brain to work. I think this could be because of my CBS snp (C699T +/+). CBS produces cysteine. With our inflammation, more cysteine oxidizes to become cystine than usual, and reversing this produces sulfites which need to be converted into sulfates with a molybdenum-containing enzyme. It seems to me that if this is the case, we would need rather more sulfur-containing amino acids than most people because we would lose them more quickly.

    I'm not sure how much my CBS SNP has to do with most of this, so I can't assume that just because we share a CBS SNP we share this particular problem.

    Do you experience any symptoms brought on by excessive B6 or a lowering of barometric pressure (sometimes this just means when a storm comes)?
     
  4. Horizon

    Horizon Senior Member

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    From what I am reading now it seems that Yasko's suggestion that this influences sulfur and ultimately ammonia is inacurrate. I am not sure what to think anymore but maybe i will purchase urine sulfate test strips to see how I do on those.
     
  5. alicec

    alicec Senior Member

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    People may well have problems with sulfur and ammonia etc and protocols such as those discussed by @aaron_c may well be helpful.

    However it has nothing to do with CBS. If your SNP is the only reason you are considering such protocols, then there is no point.

    Here is a thread discussing this SNP.
     
    Valentijn likes this.
  6. aaron_c

    aaron_c Senior Member

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    For what it's worth, I've never used sulfate test strips--I just went by symptom relief. Molybdenum relieved brain-fog in a certain way, and initially made me tired (this disappeared over time). Once over a certain dose molybdenum stopped improving things, so that's where I stopped increasing the dose.

    I have some reservations about urine sulfate testing. Since molybdenum helps to convert sulfites to sulfates (SUOX), having a molybdenum deficiency might decrease urinary sulfates. But even if you knew you had enough molybdenum, I'm not sure what high sulfate levels would tell you other than that you probably have chronic inflammation. Also somewhat confusingly, a low or even "normal" amount of sulfates could be from molybdenum deficiency or sulfur deficiency--or "normal" could be normal.

    Good luck with it, whatever you choose.
     
  7. Horizon

    Horizon Senior Member

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    Aside from mutations and controversy over the SNP, how would one know if they have sulfur/ammonia issues, what sort of symptoms or tests could elucidate that?
     
    Paralee likes this.
  8. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    Homocysteine levels in the blood would show a problem with methylation, and/or anything weird potentially happening with the CBS gene product. Ammonia levels in the blood can also be tested for.
     
    Paralee likes this.
  9. aaron_c

    aaron_c Senior Member

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    In my experience the main symptom of sulfite toxicity is brain fog. If you take molybdenum and it makes you tired, you are on the right track: Sulfites react with cysteine to form s-sulfocysteine, a glutamate analog, so effectively reducing glutamate levels initially makes most people tired. This disappears over time. At this point I assume I have a sulfite problem until my molybdenum dose is high enough that adding even more molybdenum does nothing for brain fog.

    Like many people (@Valentijn included, I think) I don't think that ammonia is behind the symptoms of what Yasko has labeled "ammonia toxicity"--although I do think the pattern of symptoms and their triggers is mostly accurate. At this point, I believe that the problem is asymmetric dimethyl arginine (ADMA), which can be tested for--although I don't know of anyone doing so including myself. Vitamin D reduces ADMA levels, and I believe this is why a UV-b lamp has been helpful for me. I am less clear on why malic acid is helpful, but it appears to be.

    I skimmed through Yasko again to try to figure out what symptoms she attributes to "ammonia" toxicity...and couldn't find anything. She clearly thinks that BH4 depletion is the major driver of pathology from ammonia toxicity, so I think the best we might do is to look to BH4 deficiency. BH4, as you probably know, stabilizes nitric oxide synthase, allowing it to produce nitric oxide (NO) and preventing it from forming superoxide (OO-) which quickly finds NO to produce peroxynitrite (ONOO), a free radical that likes to oxidize BH4 . BH4 is also essential for the synthesis of major neurotransmitters (dopamine and serotonin, which themselves are necessary for epinephrine, norepinephrine, and melatonin).

    The symptoms of BH4 as I have experienced them are these: Depression--sometimes severe--resulting from neurotransmitter deficiencies. Other cognitive problems (brain fog of a sort?), probably resulting from the same. And finally a hard-to-define uncomfortable feeling as if blood or lymph or something has become stagnant and is not flowing as it should. I assume this last symptom comes from deficient NO, which is necessary to dilate blood vessels.

    One way to see if BH4 deficiency is a problem is to order BH4 and see if it helps. It has hard to find, but here is a thread with some links that still seem to be working. Although this is cheap for a test, BH4 is expensive as a supplement which is why I don't take any currently. Alternately, you could try taking a highish dose of active B6 for a day or two and see if you become quite ill--less pleasant, but a cheaper first step. I am, however, only somewhat confident that everyone with ADMA issues reacts poorly to B6, so this might not work as a test, I'm not sure.

    A decent subset of people with ME/CFS seem to be interested in "ammonia" issues, and having experienced the benefits of treating these symptoms I suspect I am not alone with these problems. Having said that, I have had a difficult time finding descriptions of what "ammonia" symptoms are and what symptoms are relieved from taking, for example, BH4. I hope if you or anyone else reading decide yall have ADMA ("ammonia") problems you will share what that feels like for you.
     
  10. xena

    xena Senior Member

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    I don't know for certain that ammonia drives my perceived ammonia symptoms but I do know I developed Sky high blood ammonia levels after several months of high dose methylation supplements which at first helped a lot then caused me major brain fog
    Now I'd say depressed, brain fog, irritability, sore muscles and exhausted are my ammonia or sulfite symptoms
     
  11. Paralee

    Paralee Senior Member

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    Is this BH4 you're referring to also called BHMT4?
     
  12. aaron_c

    aaron_c Senior Member

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    BH4 stands for Tetrahydrobiopterin. So biopterin (B) with 4 hydrogens (H4). It is a product of enzymes, not an enzyme.

    BHMT is the enzyme Betaine Homocysteine Methyltransferase.
     
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  13. Paralee

    Paralee Senior Member

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    Thanks @aaron_c , I was thinking bhmt this whole time following this thread. I need a kindergarden class.
     
  14. BadgerGB7

    BadgerGB7

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    Anyone with CBS 699T have high Hippuric acid? My NAC is 0 and all my tests show high hippuric acid but I cannot figure it out. Any advice? Thanks!
     

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