1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
Join the National PR Campaign for ME: Power to the Patient (P2tP)
Have you had enough of all the neglect and abuse of ME/CFS patients? Gabby Klein says now is the time for a National PR Campaign for ME/CFS to impress a change. Join the Patient Revolution to restore power to ME patients ...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Homeopathy

Discussion in 'Alternative Therapies' started by filfla4, Oct 7, 2010.

  1. Dr. Nancy Malik

    Dr. Nancy Malik

    Messages:
    26
    Likes:
    0
    Gurgaon, India
    If few members of british royal family choose homeopathy medicine, it's their right to choose. They have decided for themselves. If you wish to know why they have choose, you need to ask them. Likewise it's a personal decision of everyone to choose or not to choose homeopathy, or for the matter of fact any system of medicine.
     
  2. Dr. Nancy Malik

    Dr. Nancy Malik

    Messages:
    26
    Likes:
    0
    Gurgaon, India
    For more than 150 yrs, many veterinarians using homeopathic medicines to treat domestic pets such as cats, dogs and birds, as well as barnyard animals like goats, horses and cows. Is it possible to have a placebo effect with animals?
     
  3. Dx Revision Watch

    Dx Revision Watch dxrevisionwatch.com

    Messages:
    1,819
    Likes:
    558
    UK
    I disagree Susan.

    Dr Nancy Malik is a Homeopathic Physician (Gurgaon, India) and here. Do a Google search and you will find that Dr Malik leaves comments on dozens of blogs, forums and media articles across the internet. She promotes the use of homeopathy and answers questions around homeopathy.

    It appears that to Dr Nancy Malik there is some relevance that the British Royal Family use homeopathic preparations, consult homeopathic practitioners and, according to Dr Malik, take a box of homeopathic preparations with them when they travel abroad (I am given to understand that HRH also has the services of Dr Derek Enlander, when visting New York).

    I am challenging Dr Malik because I consider that in citing the Royal Family and their arrangements when travelling overseas, she is making an appeal to authority. As a professional who is seeking support for "evidenced based" efficacy and the "realness" of "scientific" homeopathy this troubles me.

    Dr Malik is a Homeopathic Physician who has come onto an ME and CFS board, making various claims for the efficacy of homeopathy which she makes elsewhere, for example: "Real is scientific homeopathy. It cures even when Conventional Allopathic Medicine (CAM) fails. Evidence-based modern homeopathy is a nano-medicine bringing big results for everyone".

    Therefore, as a professional, I expect her to be prepared to answer my question and I don't see why Dr Malik or anyone else should be discomforted by that.

    As with any thread, Susan, if you are finding my posts boring, then please just skip them.

    So I will ask again:

    Dr Malik, in what way does the fact that some members of the Royal Family use homeopathic preparations support the use of homeopathy by non royals?

    because this response:

    does not answer the question.
     
  4. Dr. Nancy Malik

    Dr. Nancy Malik

    Messages:
    26
    Likes:
    0
    Gurgaon, India
    Being a homeopath Physician, obviously I would discuss homeopathy. Why would not I? But had I force anyone to use only homeopathy medicine or endorse any products? I have only discussed homeopathy. Is this a crime for a homeopath physician to talk about homeopathy? I have cited research papers published in journals. I have already answered your question.By repeating the same question again and again, answer would not change. Same questions have same answers. My posts are in response to what is being already discussed in the thread. See the title of the thread "homeopathy". If a homeopath is not allowed to discuss homeopathy in "homeopathy" thread, I wonder what is this?

    Regards
     
  5. Dx Revision Watch

    Dx Revision Watch dxrevisionwatch.com

    Messages:
    1,819
    Likes:
    558
    UK
    Dr Malik, you have stated that "Real is scientific homeopathy", so I am interested in examples of scientific studies - not anecdote.

    What rigorous scientific studies have been published on the application of homeopathy in domestic animals and farm animals under the care of veterinarians where the measurement of efficacy is not based upon reports by the owners of the animals taking part in the studies?
     
  6. Dx Revision Watch

    Dx Revision Watch dxrevisionwatch.com

    Messages:
    1,819
    Likes:
    558
    UK
    No, you have not answered my question and please do not use straw man arguments.
     
  7. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,373
    Likes:
    1,949
    Australia
    I'm sorry, but "nano doses" is nonsense. There is no such thing as a "nano dose". 'Nano' is merely a prefix, it is not a measure of anything. Typical measures are Nanomole, which is a measure of molecules, or nanogram a measure of mass (10^-9 grams). The problem is that through serial dilutions, these measures often become irrelevant.
    Also, this discussion of Nano should not be confused with nanomedicine, which refers to use of nanoscale medicines (between 1-100 nm) with very high specificity due to their molecular structure.
     
  8. Dx Revision Watch

    Dx Revision Watch dxrevisionwatch.com

    Messages:
    1,819
    Likes:
    558
    UK
    No-one has said that you should not discuss homeopathy on the internet.

    No-one has said that you have forced anyone to use only homeopathy.

    No-one has criticised you for talking about homeopathy.

    No, you had not answered the question.

    No-one has tried to stop you from discussing homeopathy in a homeopathy thread and certainly not me.

    So please do not misprepresent me.

    It is a fact that you are a Homeopathic Physician.
    It is a fact that you post on many sites and that you claim: Real is scientific homeopathy. It cures even when Conventional Allopathic Medicine (CAM) fails. Evidence-based modern homeopathy is a nano-medicine bringing big results for everyone".

    It is a fact that you answer questions about homeopathy.

    What is the relevance to me of these facts?

    That there is an expectation that as a professional, you would be prepared to answer my question.

    It has been presented as a fact that some members of the Royal Family use homeopathic preparations.

    You have reiterated this statement and added additional information, namely, that HRH is understood by you to take a box of homeopathic remedies with her when she travels abroad.

    This evidently has significance for you but other than tell me that the Royal Family are exercising their right to choose, you have yet to address my question:

    What relevance to discussion about the basis for claims for the efficacy of homeopathy does the use of homeopathic preparations by the British Royal Family have?

    I note that you have also said:

    What does that mean?
     
  9. Dr. Nancy Malik

    Dr. Nancy Malik

    Messages:
    26
    Likes:
    0
    Gurgaon, India
    Scientific studies in support of homeopathy medicine showing it to be more effective than placebo

    http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/321/7259/471 (2000) //allergic rhinitis
    http://chestjournal.chestpubs.org/content/127/3/936.full (2005) //Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease


    Animal studies in homeopathy

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17982565 (2007) //Scientific World Journal

    http://hpathy.com/homeopathy-scientific-research/research-in-homoeopathy/3/
     
  10. Dr. Nancy Malik

    Dr. Nancy Malik

    Messages:
    26
    Likes:
    0
    Gurgaon, India
    Nano & homeopathy medicine

    2007: Nanobubbles http://is.gd/iQYLA
    2009: Nanostructures http://bit.ly/bTYpdX
    2010: nanoparticles http://bit.ly/edUwqd
     
  11. Dr. Nancy Malik

    Dr. Nancy Malik

    Messages:
    26
    Likes:
    0
    Gurgaon, India
    Reference to use of homeopathic medicines by some members of British Royal Family is in response to Francelle's reference. See here
    http://forums.aboutmecfs.org/showthread.php?7980-Homeopathy&p=146975&viewfull=1#post146975

    "What does that mean?"

    It means homeopathy is evidence-based medicine.
     
  12. Angela Kennedy

    Angela Kennedy *****

    Messages:
    1,026
    Likes:
    154
    Essex, UK
    It certainly does not. It means the Royal family use it. To try and claim that it's evidence of efficacy because it's used by Royals is a possible irrational appeal to authority ("You should use it because it's used by - Royal people"?) and claiming this provides a safe evidence base is incorrect. You might as well say 'my mum swears by Windowlene for preventing spots. Therefore Windowlene is evidence based medicine'.
     
  13. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,373
    Likes:
    1,949
    Australia
    I'm not sure if those authors actually understand what they are measuring.

    1. (2007) I'm not sure if the authors understand the process of epitaxy. Epitaxy occurs at the surface. It is not as if the surface transfers information to the water molecules that are not at the surface.
    The spectroscopy is amusing, because it is meaningless. If they prepared their samples in multiplicate then they might have noticed their error. I am disappointed that the word normalization was not mentioned even once. I also find it amusing that they then go on to state that their findings are not reproducible with other spectrophotometer models! The lack a difference for the Nux Vom sample using the FT-IR technique is also strange if the other results are believed.

    2. (2009) The nanostructures in question almost invariably have flaws. They would have realized this if they imaged their structures properly. The EMS itself is just noise, leading to amusing statements such as: "EMS only occurred when the sample could interact with ‘background’ electromagnetic waves given off by the measuring apparatus, suggesting that the EMS might be triggered by interacting (resonating) with this electromagnetic ‘background noise’."

    3. (2010) There is substantial room for error in the procedure for this one. Otherwise I would actually suspect fraud on the part of the supplier (not supplying at reported dilutions).

    None of the above actually demonstrate nanomedicine though.

    You will also note how those specific cases have not been replicated. Otherwise the implication of causation is questionable. There is unfortunately a well known bias in science, known as publication bias. If you suspect publication bias, then you will predict a decline effect when you attempt to replicate the results.
     
  14. Dr. Nancy Malik

    Dr. Nancy Malik

    Messages:
    26
    Likes:
    0
    Gurgaon, India
    The Fourier-transform Infra-red spectrum is also being used to distinguish homeopathic potencies from solvent

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16296914
     
  15. Dr. Nancy Malik

    Dr. Nancy Malik

    Messages:
    26
    Likes:
    0
    Gurgaon, India
    There's also www.quackwatch.tv but it's the other way round about pharma industry
     
  16. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,373
    Likes:
    1,949
    Australia
    Is this an artifact of bad translation and lack of proper peer review? I have measured a variety of alcohols with FT-IR and I can tell you, they definitely have absorptions in the O-H bending region.

    The graphs and the associated 'results' in table one show no specificity at all. It is hard to believe that they actually think the graphs show anything interesting. Again, they would have noticed their error if they did their testing in multiplicate.
     
  17. Mark

    Mark Acting CEO

    Messages:
    4,528
    Likes:
    2,004
    Sofa, UK
    Before this particular issue gets any more confused I'd just like to point out that Nancy's earlier post #151 had a quote missing that caused two separate points to appear to be run together: she wasn't actually saying that use of homeopathic medicines by the royal family means that homeopathy is evidence-based medicine, but was answering an earlier question, as the post a little earlier in the thread asking that question makes clear.
     
  18. Angela Kennedy

    Angela Kennedy *****

    Messages:
    1,026
    Likes:
    154
    Essex, UK
    Ok Mark, thanks for clearing that up. Occupational hazard with threads I guess.
     
  19. Dr. Nancy Malik

    Dr. Nancy Malik

    Messages:
    26
    Likes:
    0
    Gurgaon, India
    I did not realised that I missed a quote. I am sorry. And thank you Mark for making the things clear.
     
  20. JamesK

    JamesK

    Messages:
    25
    Likes:
    2
    Just found this short video of Ben Goldacre at Nerdstock talking about placebos : [video=youtube;O1Q3jZw4FGs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1Q3jZw4FGs[/video]
     

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page