The 12th Invest in ME Research Conference June, 2017, Part 2
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Homeopathy "not good for anything" report says

Discussion in 'Other Health News and Research' started by deleder2k, Mar 11, 2015.

  1. IreneF

    IreneF Senior Member

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    Yom Kippur is not about uplift. It's the Day of Atonement.
     
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  2. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Hibernating

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    I think the theory of homeopathy predicts that those who are ill have never drank any water in their life. ;)
     
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  3. Sean

    Sean Senior Member

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    I remain firmly opposed to a single penny more of precious research funds being spent on this stuff.
     
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  4. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards "Gibberish"

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    I guess this refers to this sort of thing:
    http://www.hauserhomeopathy.com/pub/proof-for-homeopathy--beyond-material-thinking.html

    Which starts off with: 'Advancements in quantum physics has helped us to understand the human body...' but then oops! half way down says that homeopathy is not explained by physics and chemistry. If pseudoscience is using the language of science to say something that has nothing to do with science this seems a pretty good example.

    By chance, I have spent the last ten years (since retiring from medicine) working on quantum level vibrations in biological structures such as the brain, so I know quite a bit about them. They do not transfer to water and certainly not from evaporated water to a pill. This is Harry Potter territory. If I had asked my four year old daughter if teddy wanted some tea she would have said 'oh yes please daddy' but if I had asked her if three foot long teddy could sit in the one foot long doll's house she would have said 'don't be silly daddy, he's too big'. Best not to confuse magic with reality.
     
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  5. wdb

    wdb Senior Member

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  6. Cheshire

    Cheshire Senior Member

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    :rofl:
     
  7. Gijs

    Gijs Senior Member

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    If homeopathy doesn't work why do the specialists warn about using Hypericum perforatum in combination with some medicine? It doesn't work does it? :) Don't get me wrong i am not a promoter of homeopathy but there is no good science be done to rule it out yet.
     
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  8. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    A couple years ago, I bought a bunch of Yohimbine while I was in the US. It's kept in the Male Health (penis) section of the supplement stores, with other supposed cures for erectile dysfunction. On the bottle, there is "warning" in big bold letters that it must NEVER be taken by women.

    There is no reason for that warning. I've read pretty much every paper published regarding Yohimbine, and its mechanisms have nothing to do with sex or hormones. That warning is only on the bottle to make it sound as if the substance is highly effective at doing whatever is promised, without actually committing to deliberately false, misleading, and/or unsupported statements. In effect, it is a sales tactic.

    I would suggest that it's likely that some homeopaths and marketers of homeopathic products are dishonest and manipulative. Some are probably quite willing to make coy implications to bolster the reputation of their products. And some of those with good intentions may simply parrot such claims without investigating their accuracy.

    If a homeopath is claiming that a microscopic trace of a substance is going to produce a dangerous reaction when combined with another substance, I'd be questioning either their integrity or their expertise. Fortunately, I don't think most homeopaths buy into these sorts of claims or sales methods.
     
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  9. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

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    Hypericum perforatum is St John's wort (a herb) which does have some antidepressant and antiviral activity. It's not homeopathy unless extremely diluted.

    I know there's a product based on St John's wort that is approved for the treatment of depression. It's not diluted.
     
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  10. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

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    I think you're getting mixed up between homeopathy (which is water) and herbal remedies. St John's Wort is not homeopathy.
     
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  11. chipmunk1

    chipmunk1 Senior Member

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    everyone can believe what they want to believe as long as you don't blame people for their own illness or force them to get treatments they don't believe in(BPS school)
     
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  12. chipmunk1

    chipmunk1 Senior Member

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    ""The placebo is one of the best interventions we have.." S.W
     
  13. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    To perhaps clarify, I used the words "the fasting day of Yom Kippur". My own reading and experience with fasting for spiritual purposes is that it's an exercise in purification and upliftment. If that's not even close to how the Jewish religion regards their day of fasting, my sincerest apologies for any unintentional slight. I myself experience it as a day of upliftment--that's just me.
     
  14. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    In the Netherlands, "homeopathy" is also used to describe naturopathic remedies. It's very confusing and annoying :p
     
  15. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

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    Ah, I see.
     
  16. msf

    msf Senior Member

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    Not even good for ME? (Sarcasm)
     
  17. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    Homeopathic dilutions don't require the disappearance of the chemical compound.
    I see folks repeating this error over and over. It's a misconception.

    Even when the substance is still present it is indeed in minute doses. The theory says that the remedy works as a signal to the body. In fact it doesn't matter if you take 5 drops or 500 in one dose. Instead the remedy should be taken with specific intervals to reiterate the signal. Intervals change based on the dilution and the type of condition (chronic vs acute etc...)

    Whether or not this is correct and valid for all remedies, I don't know. But there's good evidence for some remedies and there's evidence for the contrary (e.g. some remedies don't).

    I see a lot of jumping to conclusions which seem unwarranted, if one only had the patient to scratch the surface.

    Honestly the argument that " a lot money" has been wasted in studying homeopathy seems a bit exaggerated, when put in perspective. Think of the billions wasted in scams such as the Tamiflu etc... It's apples and ... elephants :)

    Out of the total NHS budget of £100 billion a year, ~ 0.004% is spent on homeopathy.
     
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  18. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

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    I'm a bit confused here. What is your definition of homeopathy?

    I would certainly be open to looking at any studies if you post them.

    I'm not sure how any money wasted on the Tamiflu "scam" is related to the homeopathy "scam".

    Which IMHO, is still too much if you consider all the studies already done on homeopathy. It would be nice if that money was spent on our condition instead.

    Barb
     
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  19. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

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    I think I know what you are saying here. That it wasn't harmful to you. A good thing.

    But that brought to mind, when people say what's the harm in trying something like this?

    If homeopathy is used because it's thought to have medicinal properties when it's been shown it doesn't, that may delay seeking treatment of an illness where time is of the essence.

    Barb
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2015
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  20. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    The definition is not mine.
    Simply read how homeopathic dilutions work. For example here.
    http://homeopathyplus.com.au/tutorial-4-three-scales-of-potency/

    The process doesn't necessarily imply that the active substance disappears out of existence.

    This argument is usually brought up by critics to say that there's not even a single molecule of the original principle. In that case we're talking about remedies with a dilution > C12 or D24, a subset of the many dilutions available.

    Science, however, is a work-in-progress, it's never "done". What we know about anything is absolutely temporary and often imprecise or entirely wrong. The process of science is to continuously refine and correct what we already know and explore new territories.

    Until a few years ago the idea of "memory of water" proposed by homeopathy was deemed preposterous. Now with more sophisticated instruments (and new studies) we're learning that we might have been wrong. Water is a simple, yet extremely advanced molecule with astounding properties, many of which science is still investigating.

    Studies are now showing that water has "memory" of ultra-high diluted substances.
    See my previous post: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...anything-report-says.36169/page-3#post-571641

    See this one also:
    http://www.britishhomeopathic.org/how-does-homeopathy-work/

    The list would be very long. If you're interested you should probably do some reaserch on the web. In any case I have kept a few links in my browser:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11212085
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23622262
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23714686
    http://www.biomedcentral.com/1472-6882/12/S1/P223
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9708713

    The problem with those who take a radical position against homeopathy is that they need that each and every positive study must be wrong or must have methodological flaws. This no longer science, it's just the most basic form of prejudice and it won't take us anywhere.

    Many of the negative studies / meta-analyses often cited by critics also have methodological problems, which are typically glossed over.

    It goes without saying that we could similarly cherry pick hundreds of negative studies for anti-depressants, cancer cures, you-name-it, and generalize that the whole field of medicine is worthless.

    I don't find this very productive.

    Put in perspective, the amount spent by governments in homeopathic research is ultra-highly diluted :)
    The amount of money wasted in medicine thanks to bad practices, useless drugs and corruption is insanely larger than the bread crumbs that homeopathy gets.

    The whole TamiFlu / Relenza scam costed the UK government over 600 Million pounds, which roughly corresponds to what homeopathy research gets in 600 years! :D

    Please go on PubMed and search for homeopathy. You will get approximately 5000 entries.
    Now search for a relatively popular prescription drug. E.g. Lexapro --> 5300 studies
    Now search for Vitamin C ---> 53000 studies

    Basically the amount of studies for the whole field of homeopathy is less than those for one, single prescription drug and 1/10th of a commonly used vitamin.

    It seems to me that a double standard is being applied.
     
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