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Homeopathy for Lyme / Autoimmune - C128 LD Nosodes Formula

Discussion in 'Lyme Disease and Co-Infections' started by Wayne, Jan 20, 2012.

  1. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Cautionary Note: Fairly long post...

    I had an interesting phone conversation (exactly two weeks ago today) with someone I had never met before. This person (Chris; a 55-yr old man) feels hes completely recovered from chronic Lyme, and has been more than willing to share what he feels worked so well for him. I was given his phone number by my acupuncturist because he's aware of my own Lyme diagnosis.

    I wasn't doing very well at the time of our conversation, and although I did take some notes, I cant vouch for the complete accuracy of my recollections. But as I remember, he said he believes he had Lyme for about 12 years, and by 2009, felt he had come close to dying from it. It was about this time that he finally got a Lyme diagnosis.

    He has a strong orientation toward alternative health care solutions, but when he started doing some research on Lyme, discovered there were not many success stories out there with most of the better known Lyme protocols (either conventional or alternative). He ended up focusing in on homeopathy, thinking this might give him the best chance of success, and discovered a formula called:

    C128 - LD Nosodes Formula, by Biogetica

    As I remember, he feels he improved about 80% within the first few days of taking it. After using this for a while, he either switched over to the homeopathic remedy Ledum, or started taking Ledum in conjunction with the nosodes formula. He stressed that Ledum is a remedy that has to be taken in a very high strength for it to be effective. As I remember, he felt he was entirely well within a month, and had virtually no herx reactions along the way.
    ...........................................................

    An interesting thing then happened about a year later. He again became very sick, but with symptoms much different than his original Lyme symptoms. His doctor, who doesnt believe Lyme bacteria can ever be totally eradicated from the body, was convinced he had relapsed with Lyme, and so had him tested with what he thought was the most accurate Lyme testing available (not sure where that was). Much to his doctors surprise, Chris came back negative on all the Lyme tests.

    They then began to focus on whether he was dealing with some sort of autoimmune situation. Chris immediately began researching it, and soon discovered there are around 80 or so different autoimmune conditions that he might be dealing with. He went back to his homeopathic orientation, and tried to match up his particular symptoms with a remedy that might be effective for his particular condition. He found one (not sure which one, or whether he got it from Biogetica), and said he went into remission within an hour of taking his first dose. Hes totally well and working today.

    Just before finishing our conversation, he recommended a book for me to read entitled,

    The Homeopathic Treatment of Lyme Disease, By Peter Alex, Naturopathic Physician

    At $32.50, Im not sure I want to spend that much money on it, but he said its very insightful.

    Chris, who freely shares whats worked for him, considers what hes doing as sort of missionary work, and has never charged anything for assisting other people. He claims hes worked with 14 other people with chronic Lyme, and that 13 of them have gotten well. And he finds it very gratifying to be able to share what hes learned so he can help others.
    .............................................

    Chris advised me to purchase the C128 - LD Nosodes Formula, and so I did ($39 + 8.85 shipping), and received it last Thursday (8 days ago). Ive since learned there are at least two other websites that have it cheaper:

    MHP Nosodes
    - $16.50

    Nutrition Dynamics - $24.00

    Regarding my own experiences since starting this formula 8 days ago: It arrived late in the afternoon, and I only did one "spray" that first day. But I noticed a pretty significant shift right away. I got sort of a sense of "clarity" within the first hour, and then noticed a bit of a "buzz", as in a slight stimulant.

    I then fell asleep for over an hour, and woke up feeling quite differently than I normally do after a nap like that. Usually I wake up feeling very, very groggy, and often quite sickly. Instead, I woke up feeling somewhat "luxuriously" relaxed, and though tired, did not have the normal sense of nausea.

    Since then (the ensuing 7 days), Ive noticed more of the above in a consistent pattern, which seems to be building on my first days experience. Im sleeping somewhat better (even going to bed earlier than I normally had). And I seem to be experiencing a much greater relaxation throughout my days. It's like the "static" in my brain and neurological system has been notched down a bit.

    I feel Ive also been experiencing some rather mild herx reactions. My ability to talk and listen went through some pretty significant down cycles. I also had some intermittent periods of experiencing some unusually deep nausea. (Ive since found that the homeopathic remedy nux vomica helps considerably when the nausea gets a bit intense.) Ive also had some unusual achiness in my spine (which as I understand is where colonies of Lyme bacteria often hang out).

    So, this formula seems to have evoked some kind of immune response for me. And though sometimes a bit unpleasant, doesnt seem to be anywhere near the kinds of intense herx reactions that many people experience with various kinds of antiobiotic therapy. It also seems to be somewhat less intense than some of the reactions I would sometimes get from doing Rife frequencies.

    In just the past couple days, it feels like my cognitive capabilities (and ability to talk and listen) have been a bit more consistent as well, which is why I thought Id attempt this long post this morning. I hope its intelligible. :Retro smile: At this point, I'm feeling fairly optimistic about what the coming days and weeks might bring. Hopefully it will be more good news.

    I might just add, that even though I'm experiencing a greater relaxation, better sleep, improved mental clarity, and a bit more energy, I have to say it hasnt really significantly improved my overall functionality as of yet. I feel better and more comfortable overall, but the persistent vertigo that I deal with (and more) continues to curtail my daily activities. But Im hopeful.

    Best Regards, Wayne

    ...........................................................

    Here are the homeopathic ingredients in the LD 128 Formula:

    2 Fluid Ounces

    Composition:

    Shujin Chih 2X
    Angelica Archangelica 2X
    Du Huo 2X
    Hydrastis Canadensis 3X
    Kali Muriaticum 3X
    Manganum Metallicum 3X
    Yucca Filamentosa 3X
    Rhus Toxicodendron 5X
    Hordeum Vulgare 8X
    Latrodectus Mactans 10X
    Oxalicum Acidum 8X, 12X
    Magnesia Phosphorica 2X, 3X, 6X
    Cartilage 3X, 6X, 12X
    Arnica Montana 8X, 100X, 1000X
    Syphilinum 12X, 30X, 60X
    Lyme Nosode 15X, 30X, 60X, 100X
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  2. maryb

    maryb iherb code TAK122

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    Thanks for a very interesting post Wayne, like you I suffer from persistent vertigo in addition to many other symptoms. I dread going to bed its so bad even when I lie down. Will be keeping an eye on this thread to see how you go on over the longer term. Hope it works for you.
  3. ramakentesh

    ramakentesh Senior Member

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    Some of those plants have powerful cardiovascular and norepinephrine modifying effects. Ive read about the use of atleast two in POTS - one to modify norepinephrine activity and one to boost EPO production to increase blood volume.

    THis may not be relavant but i thought id let you know.
    Wayne likes this.
  4. m1she11e

    m1she11e Senior Member

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    Wow Wayne! Thanks for the information and I look forward to seeing how you progress.

    Maryb- I hear you on that Vertigo! It is the worst!!!!
  5. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

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  6. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Two-Week Followup with Chris

    Hi Maryb, Ramakentesh, Michelle, and Madie; Hi All,

    Thank you for your replies and comments. I talked with Chris again on Friday, and thought Id pass along a bit more of his story and perspectives. First, he apparently did have some herx reactions when he started on the C128 Formula. He mentioned he felt crappy for approximately 5-7 days, but then suddenly felt like he had broken out to a new level. He then took it for another 4-5 days, until he felt he stabilized.

    He then took 1M strength Ledum. This is apparently very strong, but he also described it as an easy going remedy, unlike some others that can knock you for a loop. Even though he felt he had broken out with the C128 Formula, he still had Lyme pain in his hip, which is apparently the area where he was bitten by the tick.

    As I remember, the pain in his hip worsened initially after taking the 1M Ledum, but within about 15-30 minutes started dissipating until it was gone. I think he may have only taken one dose of this, but he might have taken it for another 2-3 days. I know is was less duration than the C128. He said it again felt like he had broken out to a whole new level, and described some of the extraordinary things he was now able to do physically. But he still didn't feel like he was 100%. So he did a third remedy (I believe a 200 CC Lyme Nosodes). This apparently brought him to a point of complete resolution of his Lyme journey of 12+ years.

    Chris suggested I buy some 1M Ledum, which I did. Even though he didnt take it until he was finished with the C128, he felt I could start taking it because my herx reactions seemed to be lessening from what they were in the beginning. He also mentioned that the C128 Formula has Ledum in it. I took this to mean he felt my body was already somewhat acclimated to it. I now have it on my shelf, but have not yet broken the seal on it. I suspect Ill get around to taking some this week, but Ill see how things go.

    Something I took away from this story is this: Even though Chris went through this whole ordeal, and came out of it doing very well, he still ended up dealing with a serious autoimmune situation about a year later. This to me is a reminder that no matter what were dealing with now, and no matter how well we might successfully treat it, its likely another significant challenge will eventually come down the line. This may be especially true for anybody who was vulnerable to the kinds of health issues we with ME and/or CFS deal with.

    A couple more things I've noticed for myself: 1) As I go through my days, I feel less "wrung out" than I have in the past. 2) I've also noticed that when I awake, my hands are fairy "weak", or lack strength. This strikes me as a good sign, and that perhaps some some of the "intensity" in my body that has kept me from sleeping and resting well for so long is beginning to dissipate because of my body's ability to "let go". It reminds me of how noticeable this was in my youth.

    Best, Wayne
  7. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Reading A Book Again

    One other thing I forgot to mention is that I started reading a book a few days ago for the first time in years. And I'm enjoying it, not feeling overly mentally drained by the effort and exertion. In fact, it's relaxing and helping me go to sleep at night. I doubt it's a coincidence this is happening after starting the C128 Formula.

    Wayne
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  8. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Hi Wayne,

    This all sounds encouraging. Hint for a 1 M potency: it is very potent and also very sensitive. I was told to take it at bedtime, at least a half an hour after food, drink, toothpaste, etc., and to then go right to bed without talking or doing anything else.

    Let us know how it goes.

    Best,
    Sushi
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  9. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    Hey Wayne, Thanks for spelling out the details of this remedy and its effects. Very interesting.

    I look forward to hearing more about your experiences with it.

    PS Could you PM me and remind me again what that book that you were reading is called? The title has escaped me. Thanks.
  10. Abha

    Abha Abha

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    Hi Wayne,
    I find this interesting and I'll be following to see how you progress.I have Rickettsia conorii(ME/other conditions too)and I'm wondering if it would help in my case.Like Lyme Rickettsia can be spread by ticks too.That book sounds interesting too but it is rather expensive(specialist book?).
  11. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Another Homeopathic Success Story

    Quick update: I was deliberately not doing any Rife sessions once I started the C128 Remedy, and had not done any for at least 2-3 weeks prior to starting it. So I thought I would do a little experiment and see what (if any) kind of reaction I might have after having done the C128 Remedy for about 10 days.

    A primary reason for trying the Rife was to try to get better insight into whether my body might be ready for the 1M Ledum. I did the Rife session yesterday, and did quite well for the rest of the day. When I awoke this morning however, I felt totally out of sync, with most of my health symptoms aggrevated. Its since been a fairly long, difficult day, which Im taking as an indication Im not yet ready to take the 1M Ledum.
    ...........................................................

    This thread feels like a good place to share another homeopathic story Ive thought in the past about sharing here, but never got around to it. I see an Osteopathic Physician for some cranial/sacral work every couple of months or so. Hes quite sympathetic to my health situation, and pretty much gives me whatever kind of prescription I feel I need or want to try. He used to work in a hospital emergency room, and over the years saw a few people with CFS and had pretty much bought into the notion that it was psychosomatic.

    But after a while, he started to see people he knew, or was familiar with, who developed CFS, and whom he perceived to be some of the most psychologically healthy people he knew. So he knew something wasnt adding up with the whole psychosomatic thing. And then he himself got very sick with a mysterious ailment. Traditional medicine could not give him a diagnosis, and was not able to do anything for him. His health dramatically deteriorated as the weeks went by, and he felt his symptoms were very similar to those of somebody with CFS.

    Finally, in desperation, he sought out a local reputable homeopathic practitioner. Im pretty sure her approach was pure classical, which I interpret as addressing the constitutional aspect of an individual, as opposed to addressing a specific disease or symptom. The results, as I remember, were almost immediate. Im pretty sure he said he was completely well within 24 hours.

    Ive thought of this story often, and have thought that if I were to recommend any particular health care approach or treatment to somebody new to ME/CFS, I would almost certainly recommend finding a competent homeopathic practitioner. I dont think this made total sense to my Osteopathic Physician when he was so sick, but he was desperate, he tried it, and it worked. When I look at the risk/reward ratio, it seems like a sensible AND very safe approach, as Ive never heard of a homeopathic remedy being very damaging to a person in the way certain drugs can be.
    golden likes this.
  12. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Third Remedy - 200 CC Lyme Nosode

    Cautionary Note: Another Long Post

    I got a call from Chris on Wednesday afternoon, inquiring how I was doing. I mentioned I had gotten the Ledum, but had not yet started it. Also, that I seemed to be cycling in and out of symptoms with the C128 Formula. He said it sounded like I was experiencing what I remember him referring to as some kind of backloop, where once the remedy has done its work, the body can begin to experience symptoms that a remedy would trigger in a healthy person.

    So he recommended I stop the C128, and move on to the 1M Ledum, which I did. I took two doses on Wednesday, and one on Thursday morning. That was two days ago, so my memory is a little fuzzy, but I seem to remember having a short aggravation period (about an hour or so) on Wednesday afternoon. I followed this with an unusually restful nap, and awoke with sort of an unusual warm feeling in my thyroid area. I then had a good nights sleep on Wednesday night.
    ................................................

    After listening to my Ledum experiences (on Thursday), Chris felt I was already ready to discontinue that and move onto a new remedy. So we made plans to meet on Friday morning at the acupuncturists office, where he planned to give me a 200 cc Lyme nosode remedy (only one remedy, as opposed to the C128 which was several combined remedies). He gave me about 60 pellets, and said to break it up into three separate doses.

    I took the first dose yesterday (Friday) afternoon. After about 45 minutes, I became quite nauseous, and even wondered whether I might vomit. But it was fairly brief, and I decided to eat something (kefir) to perhaps stabilize things for myself. The nausea went away, but I felt I needed to lay down and completely turn everything off. I did this, and fell into a light nap.

    When I awoke, I felt better than I usually do upon waking from a nap. When I got up, I noticed my vertigo (balance) was better than normal, and felt fairly stable and a bit stronger than normal. Chris called last night (Friday) to check up on me, since he realized this 200 cc Lyme nosode has the potential to pack a bit of a wallop. When I described my symptoms, he felt that I should hold off before doing a second dose, thinking one may be all I needed.
    .....................................................

    The rest of Friday evening was fairly uneventful, except for feeling a bit more relaxed than normal. I went to bed with some expectations that I would sleep great, and wake up feeling better than ever. Well, it didnt take long for me do realize there would be no placebo effect. I tossed and turned a bit more than normal, and by 4:00, woke up with some classic Lyme symptoms: minor pain and stiffness in my fingers and hands (which has gone through cycles over the years); a worse than normal headache; a sense of invisible darts racing through my brain; other brain/neurological edginess; a familiar sense of feeling my body and energy system were in a tight vise; and more.

    I wasnt sure exactly what to do, but as I laid there, I briefly saw the outline of a tick show up in my inner vision. It wasnt exactly a comforting thing, but for some reason, it seemed to be a sign I should take at least a couple more pellets of the 200 cc Lyme nosode. I had taken about 20 pellets in my initial dose, and thought a small dose might give me a little boost to get over a difficult period.

    This is actually where things began to get quite interesting. As I laid there, I began to get some warm feelings very similar to what I experienced in my thyroid area on Wednesday after taking my first Ledum dose. But instead of the thyroid area, it started more in the solar plexus area. It was fairly subtle at first, but it then began to expand outward from there, until I noticed it in my entire GI tract, and then upward toward my heart and thyroid area. This was accompanied by a feeling of the vise grip on my body and neurological system being released, and I settled into a comfortable time of relaxation.

    I was able to go back to sleep for another hour or so, and woke up feeling very relaxed. But after I got up, I didnt feel particularly functional. Ive since noticed my sensory overload is worse than normal, and my attempt at talking was quite difficult. A word that came up for me was limbo, in that I dont quite know where my body is at this morning. However, writing seems to be a good way for me to perhaps bring some balance and stability back into my system after having gone through so much in the past few days. I believe it all to be positive, and seems to be in line with what Ive long believed; that it can be challenging for a debilitated body to adapt to most everything, even if its good.

    (summation in next post)
    madietodd likes this.
  13. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Regarding Chris

    As soon as I met Chris yesterday, he struck me as being a very healthy person, physically and in all other respects. He has a ready smile, and exudes a sense of goodness and clarity. Hes enthusiastic about sharing what he knows, and what he feels might help me (and others). It was highly encouraging to hear of his journey back from his own extremely debilitating chronic Lyme odyssey.

    He mentioned I looked different than most people he has met with Lyme. It seemed clear to me he was inferring I looked better than others hes seen. I happened to be one of those pw/CFS who gets comments like, well, you look good. Anyway, toward the end of our meeting, Chris said he felt very confident I could fully recover my health, just as he had (which is always nice to hear!). Im assuming Ill be talking to him again some time today, as we seem to be at an important juncture. Im using some high potency remedies, and I want to be sure I use them in a prudent manner.

    Chris had mentioned at one point he studied natural health for ten years. When I asked him about this yesterday, he said he took an online course in natural health, and ended up getting some kind of degree. Though it doesnt seem he got this degree with the intent of starting his own practice, it was a period of time when he intently focused on natural health, and homeopathy in particular. He certainly seems to be well versed in homeopathic principles, especially as it relates to Lyme.

    I mentioned in my initial post that Chris feels hes doing sort of missionary work, and has never charged for his assistance to others. I told him I was posting some of my experiences on this board, and asked him if he would be open having other PR readers call him in case they would want to discuss their own situation with him. He said he would definitely be open to that. So, let me know if my story intrigues you enough to consider starting a similar journey. It could be very helpful to have somebody with a fair amount of knowledge about homeopathy helping you along the way.

    Best Regards, Wayne
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  14. jenbooks

    jenbooks Guest

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    I'm really glad you're feeling even a bit better, Wayne.

    I personally would rather do classical homeopathy. I don't like one fits all remedies with lots of stuff in them. I've done some reading in homeopathy, and I actually have two cases of 50 remedies each at 30 cc and 200 cc. Sometimes I can pass my finger over each vial and feel a "stick" on one. I haven't used them in a long time, and I would like to again...I've been thinking about it lately.

    If you get the constitutional remedy, it addresses the fundamental deep imbalances that allow chronic illness to manifest--even if it's due to microbes.

    But anyway, thanks for posting and look forward to hearing more.
  15. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Continuing Small Doses of 200 cc Lyme Nosode

    Just a quick update this morning. When I talked with Chris on Saturday, he advised me against taking the other two doses of the 200 Lyme Nosodes (about 20 pellets each). Instead, he felt like it had done most of what it will do, but did recommend taking a couple or so pellets when some of my symptoms flare up.

    Yesterday started out quite distressing, so I did take a couple of pellets upon awakening. It seemed to calm my system down a bit, but I did end up having a very difficult day (symptom-wise). For most of the day, I experienced significant depression, anxiety, discombobulation, vertigo, cognitive disarray, and more. I did a far infrared (FIR) sauna later in the afternoon, and it helped a bit. I was relieved to be able to sleep fairly well (and long) last night (about 10 hours), and woke up this morning feeling MUCH more grounded.

    This reminds me of some of the accounts I've read where treatment of Lyme, no matter what the modality, can lead to symptoms that can easily be worse than the Lyme symptoms one has experienced over time. My take is that the increased severity in symptoms can often last for days, weeks or months. So I'm relieved to be at more of a "baseline" level of functioning this morning. My best guess is that while homeopathy can exacerbate symptoms, it's doesn't seem likely it would be nearly as long as using other therapies.

    Best, Wayne
  16. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Classical Homeopathy

    Hi Jenbooks,

    I hear you regarding classical homeopathy. It's been on my mind for years, and especially so this past year. When I met Chris, I decided to go with the non-classical approach that worked so well for him and for others he's helped with Lyme.

    I don't know how far this non-classical approach will take me, but for now it has made me realize more fully how potent homeopathic remedies can be, having experienced very noticeable shifts from taking each one. After taking this current approach as far as I'm able, I do plan to try to find a classical homeopathic remedy as I go forward (which Chris seems inclined to help me with).

    Good to hear from you. :Retro smile:

    Wayne
  17. liquid sky

    liquid sky Senior Member

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    Interesting thread. Thank you, Wayne, for letting us follow your experience. Hope things get better for you.
    Wayne likes this.
  18. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Saunas Helpful for Dieoff Reactions

    I've been very gradually stabilizing over the past ten days. My cycles of experiencing a worsening and then lessening of Lyme dieoff symptoms are much easier for me to handle, and I now feel I'm probably over the worst of the "down cycles". So based on Chris's advice, I've not taken any more remedies during this time. A couple of notable things:

    1) My fluctuating up and down cycles are very largely influenced by my taking FIR saunas. I noticed that I almost always feel significantly better the day following a sauna, and usually feel worse following days when I don't take a sauna. This was never nearly so noticeable before doing these latest remedies. I'm assuming the saunas are greatly reducing some of the neurotoxin toxicity.

    2) I've noticed that the "jutting" sensation I often experience in my brain and neurological system has been better recently. I would describe this jutting sensation as experiencing the energy of a thought and/or emotion breaking out into a chaotic static instead of flowing in a nice harmonious rhythm. It's really been quite a relief, and has been a significant factor in my staying hopeful about what sometimes feels like minimal progress.

    Wayne
  19. markmc20001

    markmc20001 Guest

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    Hey Wayne,

    Thanks for all the detail on your treatments.

    How about multiple Antibiotics? have you ever tried the ABX route for lyme? I've tried doxy, amox, and flagyl and did pretty good for awhile with methylation supplements at the same time.

    However, I can't tolerate the oral ABX anymore(jacked up gut, unrelated to abx), so I would need ABX IV I guess.

    How did you choose the natural route over the heavy antibiotics artillary?

    Thanks,
    markmc
  20. ggingues

    ggingues $10 gift code at iHerb GAS343 of $40

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    I thought you had a link to the rife that you are using in this thread? Can you guide me? thanks!

    GG

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