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HMB to prevent muscle wasting and improve wound healing

Discussion in 'Skeleton, Skin, Muscles, Hair, Teeth, and Nails' started by Basilico, Apr 18, 2017.

  1. Basilico

    Basilico Florida

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    My husband and I just came across this today; it sounds really interesting and potentially very useful, especially since we have not be able to do any strength training in a long time and we are both definitely losing muscles (an issue that I know affects many here). He suspects that I may have a bit of sarcopenia.

    HMB (
    beta-Hydroxy beta-methylbutyric acid) is naturally produced in the human body, though it must be converted from L-Leucine and very little ends up making it's way into HMB.

    There are no adverse effects reported in human studies where people took 3 grams/daily taken for a year.

    The only mention I could find of HMB here on PR was using it for an unrelated purpose, and someone mentioned it affected cortisol levels, but I couldn't find any evidence to corroborate that assertion.

    Has anyone heard of or used this? I just placed an order, will be starting it soon.

    @antherder and @arewenearlythereyet and @Diwi9 and @Crux and @Hip , I saw you mentioned slow wound healing, this might be interesting for you to try if you haven't already.



    Some interesting wikipedia quotes:

    In healthy adults, supplementation with HMB has been shown to increase gains in muscle size, muscle strength, lean body mass, reduce skeletal muscle damage, and speed recovery from exercise.[2][8][9][10] HMB produces these effects in part by stimulating the production of proteins and inhibiting the breakdown of proteins in muscle tissue.[7][11][12]Medical reviews have found no issues with safety from long-term use as a dietary supplement in adults.[2][8][9][13]

    And:

    The effects of HMB on human skeletal muscle were first discovered by Steven L. Nissen at Iowa State University in the mid-1990s.[18][23] It is added to certain medical foods that are intended to provide nutritional support for people with muscle wasting due to cancer or HIV/AIDS and to promote wound healing.

    Some branded products that contain HMB (i.e., certain formulations of Ensure and Juven) are medical foods that are intended to be used to provide nutritional support under the care of a doctor in individuals with muscle wasting due to HIV/AIDS or cancer, to promote wound healing following surgery or injury, or when otherwise recommended by a medical professional.[1][18][24][25] Juven, a nutrition product which contains 3 grams of HMB-Ca, 14 grams of l-arginine, and 14 grams of l-glutamine per two servings,[1] has been shown to improve lean body mass during clinical trials in individuals with AIDS and cancer.

    Supplemental HMB has been used in a number of clinical trials as a treatment for preserving lean body mass in muscle wasting conditions, particularly sarcopenia, and has been studied in clinical trials as an adjunct therapy in conjunction with resistance exercise.[7][8][15][11] HMB supplementation may also prevent muscle atrophy during bed rest, but more research is needed to determine its efficacy for this purpose.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta-Hydroxy_beta-methylbutyric_acid
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2017
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  2. Murph

    Murph :)

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    gave this supplement a quick google and it does look like it could confer a small (researchers call it trivial) benefit to untrained individuals.

    https://www.sportsdietitians.com.au/factsheets/supplements/hmb/

    Of course, mileage may vary in people whose metabolisms are a bit wacky! if we're breaking down muscle for energy as Naviaux suggested, impeding that may even reduce energy levels...

    I'd be interested to hear a few case reports from people who've experimented on it.
     
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  3. Basilico

    Basilico Florida

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    I was thinking there would be more interest in this. Guess this thread will be mainly just for me :)

    I'm going to post relevant links to HMB research as I find them and periodically update my experience with it. I am considering attempting to do some minimal strength training, though I'm not sure that will be sustainable. We'll see. Even if I am not yet ready for light weightlifting, I think this has the potential to at least preserve whatever muscle I still have.

    I've decided to strive for 3g/day. Today is Day 1 and I've taken 2g with lunch. I will take 1g with dinner.

    1 gram = 1/4 teaspoon.

    It dissolves easily in water, but it is a bit on the gross-tasting spectrum. I may take it with juice instead of water.

    EDIT: Just learned that it's best to take it in divided doses (whoops) since the half-life is 2-3 hours. I will probably mix 3g into a glass and sip from it throughout the day. If any exercising is done, it's best to take a little (500mg) both before and and after, because it increases blood flow to muscles.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2017
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  4. Basilico

    Basilico Florida

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    This article is from a bodybuilding perspective, but it quotes research that shows HMB is responsible for a significant reduction in the breakdown of muscle after exercising - he quotes and discusses several double-blind studies with control groups, as well his own anecdotal evidence of using it to successfully lose fat WHILE gaining muscle (pretty much unheard of).

    From the article:

    There are three main markers which researchers look at when examining muscular proteolysis (breakdown of protein into peptides or amino acids) or damage: creatine phosphokinase (CK), lactate dehydrogenase (LDH), and 3-methylhistidine (3-MH). Research has shown HMB supplementation to decrease all of these parameters3, 7.

    3-MH only shows up in the blood when contractile proteins break down, making it the best marker to use when examining the effects of exercise on muscle tissue.

    A study examining this marker found that after one week of exercising, urine 3-MH levels increased by 94% in the control group, 85% in the group supplementing with 1.5 g HMB/day, and 50% in the group supplementing with 3 g HMB/day.

    More interested is after two weeks of exercising, the urine 3-MH level of the control group was still 27% above their basal value, while the group supplementing with 1.5 g HMB/day value was 4% below their basal value and the 3 g HMB/day group was 15% below their basal value12. This shows the supplementing with HMB decreases the amount of contractile protein being broken down.

    https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/beast7.htm

    In Part 2 (Study C) of this article, there is a section specifically discussing using HMB along with arginine and glutamine to preserve lean mass in cancer patients, who are prone to losing lean muscle mass.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2017
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  5. Basilico

    Basilico Florida

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    There seems to be some conflicting data about whether HMB does or does not have an impact on preserving lean muscle mass. A majority of what I'm finding shows that it does have a positive impact. This article published on Pubmed examines a variety of studies done on HMB in different populations (trained athletes, untrained people, the elderly, those on bed rest, and mice) and tries to explain reasons for some inconsistent findings. Overall, it still looks to me like HMB has some real potential.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2245953/


    Since I'm not using this as part of a strength-training program, I'm trying to focus on studies in people on bed rest or with chronic illness (cancer, AIDs, etc...). I found this to be interesting (from the above link):



    The efficacy of HMB supplementation during states of severe muscle catabolism

    As a purported anti-catabolic agent, HMB supplementation has been examined under various muscle wasting situations. Soares et al. [48] showed that HMB supplementation during hind limb immobilization of adult mice resulted in less fiber damage, and greater muscle fiber diameter (+6.9%). Consistent with these results, studies have found that HMB supplementation decreases performance decrements associated with bed rest [49,50]. Cohen [51] investigated the effects of HMB supplementation on changes in body composition during positive and negative energy balances. Results found that HMB supplementation maintained LBM to a greater extent than placebo while in a negative energy balance. This is consistent with similar studies on the effects of amino acids and their metabolites during negative energy balance [52-54].

    Studies also indicate that HMB can reduce muscle loss associated with diseases such as auto immunodeficiency syndrome (AIDS) [55,56], and cachectic cancerous conditions [35]. Collectively, these results led Alon et al. [57] in a review on HMB to suggest that "continuing research in HMB treatment of patients with advanced-stage disease may potentially uncover methods to increase strength and immunity and thus improve chances of survival (p.g. 14)."
     
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  6. arewenearlythereyet

    arewenearlythereyet Senior Member

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    Hi @Basilico for some reason this didn't pop up in my I'm box when you posted. I've bookmarked it now and will have a proper read when I'm less blah (been a blah blah blah day today so I'm not in a fit state for anything at the moment)
     
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  7. Basilico

    Basilico Florida

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    I'm actually thinking that maybe no one is seeing this thread, since I tagged a ton of people and no one else seems to be responding. Not sure what I can do to fix that.
     
  8. UKmum

    UKmum

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    Quiet day maybe- looks very interesting to me
     
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  9. eljefe19

    eljefe19

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    HMB upregulates IGF therefore impacting mTOR positively and also is simply an mTOR activator. Good stuff.
     
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  10. Basilico

    Basilico Florida

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    I did read that it influenced mTOR, but I couldn't find any information about how strong the effect is. If it only increases mTOR by 0.0001% that's not really much of an activator. I will see if I can find any info on how strong the impact actually is.
     
  11. Basilico

    Basilico Florida

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    FYI, Leucine is one of the BCAAs, and you would need to consume 60 grams of Leucine to produce 3g of HMB.



    This study compared Leucine vs. HMB: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23551944

    "While HMB and Leu (Leucine) both increased anabolic signalling (mechanistic target of rapamycin; mTOR), this was more pronounced with Leu (i.e. p70S6K1 signalling 90 min vs. 30 min for HMB)."

    They don't mention how strongly HMB affects mTOR, however they do seem to say that Leucine has a much more pronounced effect on mTOR.


    From this site: http://www.hmb.org/about-hmb/science-instead-of-hype/how-hmb-works/

    HMB stimulates protein synthesis in muscle by multiple mechanisms, including the mTOR/p70S6k pathway, which stimulates translation initiation of protein synthesis. (Many of these effects are shared with leucine; however, HMB is more potent than leucine in promoting strength gains).

    *I'm not seeing anything that discusses how strong the effect is on mTOR. I have a feeling it's probably negligible, but I have no way to know whether this is true.


    I also came across this, which is pretty interesting:

    When compared to leucine, HMB appears to be significantly more potent on a gram per gram basis at attenuating the rate of muscle protein breakdown but is less effective than leucine at inducing muscle protein synthesis. Due to this, HMB is marketed as an anti-catabolic agent (purposed to reduce the rate of muscle breakdown) rather than an anabolic agent (purposed to increase muscle mass).

    Human trials don't normally tend to be structured to properly assess the effects of HMB, as most of the studies are a standard diet paired with an exercise regimen investigating the role of HMB in promoting muscle protein synthesis (of which it is similar to leucine in the sense that there are positive results, but quite unreliably so); the limited evidence that assesses HMB during periods of muscle loss are either underpowered or not in athletes.

    HMB, currently, appears to be a pretty interesting supplement for the purpose of reducing muscle wasting during periods where muscle atrophy is accelerated (cachexia, AIDS, bedrest) and should theoretically work in athletes on a calorie restricted diet but is not fully established for this role yet (which is a notable issue, since glutamine has a large dichotomy between clinical and healthy populations).

    https://examine.com/supplements/hmb/
     
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  12. Basilico

    Basilico Florida

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    Ok, I think that's enough research for one day :)

    My husband and I have both begun HMB supplementation and neither is having any kind of reaction, which is good.

    I made myself a "cocktail" with 3g HMB, 1200mg potassium, 300 mg magnesium citrate, 2g inositol, 1000mg Vit C and 1 teaspoon of sugar. I have been sipping it throughout the day. I was expecting it to taste truly gross, but it's actually not too bad. I think I will continue taking it this way for the time being.
     
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  13. antherder

    antherder a.k.a. Princess Dauer, Nematode Nation

    Thanks for the tag, @Basilico.(I didn't get the first tag either.) Will read more later. Will be interested to hear how your trial with it goes.
     
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  14. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    I didn't get your first tag either, @Basilico ,

    Thanks for thinking of us. I'm interested in your review of this product. Will be reading along.
     
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  15. eljefe19

    eljefe19

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    @Basilico So the fact it has two distinct ways of activating mTOR is pretty cool. On either examine or selfhacked it said HMB may be more potent than leucine at protein creation.
     
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  16. eljefe19

    eljefe19

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    @Basilico Also, I've learned these things are way more nuanced than we thought. I'm about to start a trial of Rapamycin, the quintessential mTOR inhbitor because it has an effect on B cells than reduces autoantibodies. Similar to Rituximab but MUCH cheaper. It will be a very interesting experiment.
     
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  17. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    Very interesting - I've never heard of HMB before. FWIW, branched chain amino acids have cut my PEM recovery time in half. BCAAs consist of leucine, iso-leucine and valine, generally in a 2-1-1 ratio. So I may be getting some HMB through the BCAAS. Keep us posted how it goes!
     
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  18. halcyon

    halcyon Senior Member

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    @Basilico do you have a source for the HMB? I used to take it as part of a combination product (also contained arginine, citrulline, glycine, and ornothine) when I was into bodybuilding before getting ME. I could never find a source for just HMB by itself though.
     
  19. Basilico

    Basilico Florida

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    I'm not sure where you're located, but I order it from Amazon. It's $17 for 250 grams. At 3g/day, this should be enough for 83 days. I'm using Bulk Supplements brand:

    https://www.amazon.com/BulkSuppleme...qid=1493085836&sr=1-1-spons&keywords=hmb&th=1
     
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  20. Basilico

    Basilico Florida

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    @Johnskip , maybe this is something you can try if you decided to reduce/stop weightlifting for a while, since you are worried about reconditioning.

    Also, @dannybex , you mentioned that you now have a muscle wasting issue, and @Violeta , you were also asking on another thread about ways to stop muscle wasting - have either of you tried this?
     
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