Historically incorrect somatization illness eg MS and...?

[cfsStevew]

while MS is now accepted to be of autoimmune origin early symptoms are is still frequently misdiagnosed sometimes even as conversion disorder.

thats great thanks...I also think there is a real sexism/gender bias in ME and the way the MS was handled is demonstrative of this....

 

[worldbackwards]

There's an interesting piece from Radio 4 programme 'Thinking Allowed' the week before last on the labelling of migraine sufferers as 'hysterical women' that may be of interest here:
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/radio4/ta/ta_20150128-1645a.mp3
It starts about half way through and runs to the end. You can listen here, or download by 'right click/save as'.

 

[Cheshire]

There's an interesting piece from Radio 4 programme 'Thinking Allowed' the week before last on the labelling of migraine sufferers as 'hysterical women' that may be of interest here:
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/radio4/ta/ta_20150128-1645a.mp3
It starts about half way through and runs to the end. You can listen here, or download by 'right click/save as'.

That's really interesting! Thanks a lot. There are lots of similarities with MECFS.

A bit depressing also, when she talks about the biomedical model twisted to fit some doctors beliefs: before, the patient weak personality, his inabilty to cope with life was responsible for his/her migraine. Now the blame is put on a "weak brain" unable to cope with life's stressors. Reminds me of how the central sensitization theory is used against us...

 

[chipmunk1]

Now the blame is put on a "weak brain" unable to cope with life's stressors.

Which probably needs some CBT or mindfulness meditation to function better.

Then brain development was probably negatively influenced by some childhood experiences and stressors or inappropriate parenting.

 

[lansbergen]

Then brain development was probably negatively influenced by some childhood experiences and stressors or inappropriate parenting.

 

[Sidereal]

That's really interesting! Thanks a lot. There are lots of similarities with MECFS.

A bit depressing also, when she talks about the biomedical model twisted to fit some doctors beliefs: before, the patient weak personality, his inabilty to cope with life was responsible for his/her migraine. Now the blame is put on a "weak brain" unable to cope with life's stressors. Reminds me of how the central sensitization theory is used against us...

Psychobabble has morphed into neurobabble but the underlying accusation that the patient is unable to handle normal life stresses remains.

 

[Snowdrop]

I don't understand, in the absence of any proof one way or other why it should not be viewed as follows:

A person ill with recurring symptoms over time has more difficulty coping with life stressors because the illness itself is a significant stressor over time.

I don't particularly follow the work of Dr Leonard Jason although I come across his name here on some threads.

I'm going to get a little cranky here and suggest that if the psychological profession would like to help the ME community I see the greatest assistance coming from the study of why supposedly intelligent people with medical degrees when faced with people suffering unexplained illness retreat to an emotional response of blaming the victims. That sort of response is of course not a 'medical professional' response but a human one.

That would make for really useful scientific enquiry.

 

[NilaJones]

Any disease that affects women more often than men is assumed to be psychosomatic, even after proven otherwise.

Compare this to diseases affecting more men that women, that have been proven to have a large psychological ('stress') component, e.g. heart disease.

 

[Scarecrow]

Does stress = psychological?

I think not.

 

[cfsStevew]

Im quite interested in this concept of psychosomatic illness...but it appears to me that the seperated categories and concepts around this are inherently wrong (somatization, conversion, hysteria). I think there is a lot to say about the brain and the body - working together - affecting health. I say 'brain' because what constitutes 'the mind' is quite ill defined it seems. The problem as I see it is psychiatry with its age old concepts from Freud etc of 'the mind' affecting the body in vague and mysterious ways...the other issue of the mind affecting the body is a false sense of illness being caused by the mind, rather than the brain being totally linked with the body and essentially being the body - so essentially its just 'illness' as opposed to trying to focus on one or the other...

Psychiatry seems determined to pathologise everything almost for the sake of its own chin stroking academics to impose their views...for instance - there is a mention above how apparently psychiatrists can judge when a person is 'unable to cope with life'...there is inherent judgement based on what they assume is normality and a persons weakness...

 

[chipmunk1]

psychiatry claims to be objective, unbiased and scientific while many conversion disorder diagnoses are often made by prejudiced, biased and rather emotionally thinking psychiatrists.

the fact that a large percentage of women having MS are misdiagnosed as having a mental disorder while most men are not getting a psych diagnosis shows that there is a diagnostic bias.

supposedly high risk groups for somatisers include people displaying signs of anxiety or emotional problems, uneducated people and many other groups that all do have some attribute which does somehow imply inferiority.

These high risk groups might actually not reflect real risks but rather the prejudice of the clinician.or researchers.

In the medical system having a medically unexplained illness seems to be equal to being a second-class citizien with restricted and limited rights.

This is a potentially discriminatory attitude not so much different from viewing ethnic groups as being inferior because they share common superficial attributes.

there is inherent judgement based on what they assume is normality and a persons weakness...

and assuming you know the person better than they do after a 15 minute visit.

The amazing thing is that they claim that conversion disorder is caused by a hidden inner conflict in the subconscious (which no one has ever seen by the way)which the patient/family does not understand and never ever could but apparently they can understand this conflict after seeing them once or twice.

 

[cfsStevew]

thanks chipmunk you really nailed it...Im starting to think that historically perhaps the academic status is what these psychiatrists believe gives them some sort of superiority over 'the people' and the right to diagnose in these mildly insulting ways...and of course - immunity to scientific critique...

I say historically because I hope as I have seen in the ME community - that now days any intelligent person can learn via the internet and challenge the dogma of these systems...

 

[Never Give Up]

I don't understand, in the absence of any proof one way or other why it should not be viewed as follows:

A person ill with recurring symptoms over time has more difficulty coping with life stressors because the illness itself is a significant stressor over time.

I don't particularly follow the work of Dr Leonard Jason although I come across his name here on some threads.

I'm going to get a little cranky here and suggest that if the psychological profession would like to help the ME community I see the greatest assistance coming from the study of why supposedly intelligent people with medical degrees when faced with people suffering unexplained illness retreat to an emotional response of blaming the victims. That sort of response is of course not a 'medical professional' response but a human one.

That would make for really useful scientific enquiry.[/QUOTagre!

Completely agree! After wiping out ME/CFS! This has to be the next thing to go!

 

[JeannieH]

Im very intrigued by this psychiatric category apparently a residue from Freuds fantasies about patient health issues...Somatization disorders (the updated hysteria).

I understand that before MRI scans became prevalent - MS was regarded as Conversion/Somatization disorder...and even Cancer at one point...

Apparently any illness which is not explained by test results, or has a lot of symptoms confusing the Doctor, is a fair target for a diagnosis of Somatization...and it has taken a change/improvement in technology to shift an incorrect diagnosis...

Has anyone seen any good articles on this floating around, or examples of other illnesses historically mis-diagnosed into this category? Im trying to build up a narrative around this issue shedding a light on it, because it appears that the mistakes of the past are simply ignored and I didnt hear about an apology to the MS sufferers who were stigmatised int he 70s...but what I do see are articles in national newspapers about CFS and fear avoidance...

I remember reading something about polio being considered a mental illness before the polio virus was discovered. You might try researching that.

 

[JeannieH]

I remember reading somewhere that polio was first considered to be a psychosomatic illness. When the epidemics hit, they called it "mass hysteria."

 

[Cheshire]

I think there is now an organic explaination for most erectil dysfunctions.

Thanks to Dear Sigmund, every symptoms linked to sex were once psychologized. Well, in fact with psychoanalysis, everything ended attributed to a subcontious fear of castration for men, or the secret desire of posessing a phalus for women...

 

[Luelma]

I am trying to find a robust and referencable source for this notion that breast cancer in particular was once believed to be caused by psychiatric imbalances.

If you are able to point out any (referencable) research relating to this notion of breast cancer being common in certain emotionally and mentally weak women, I'd love to hear!

I think this is the second thread on this topic. I think @Bob started the first one?

There are lists of older diseases counted as psychosomatic/hysteria/conversion/somatization. To that you can add every disease we don't understand yet .... which includes probably thousands of genetic disorders.I compiled a least of at least twenty a few years back but I have no idea what happened to it. It would not surprise me if for old illness alone it approaches a hundred, and adding in newly discovered and as yet undiscovered illness it could be thousands.

All cancer was once considered psychosomatic, but especially breast cancer.

 

[alex3619]

I am trying to find a robust and referencable source for this notion that breast cancer in particular was once believed to be caused by psychiatric imbalances.

This was big waaayy before the internet, or even electronic records. We are talking about WW2 vintage, give or take a decade or two. I have read some papers, some years ago, but don't have any ready references. It is however still being discussed, particularly in popular culture. I will see if I can find anything, but this is something you need a proper medical or scientific database for, and a medical library that was founded before about 1930. Even then the papers may be in storage.

Having said that the papers I found were online. They exist. I spent many months looking for such things when investigating psychosomatic medicine. There was one site I think posted some info but suddenly its disappeared ... the owner has given up on ME advocacy, and taken down the site. There is another site I might have posted on, I still need to check that.

 

[Luelma]

Thanks very much indeed - be great if you were able to find!

This was big waaayy before the internet, or even electronic records. We are talking about WW2 vintage, give or take a decade or two. I have read some papers, some years ago, but don't have any ready references. It is however still being discussed, particularly in popular culture. I will see if I can find anything, but this is something you need a proper medical or scientific database for, and a medical library that was founded before about 1930. Even then the papers may be in storage.

Having said that the papers I found were online. They exist. I spent many months looking for such things when investigating psychosomatic medicine. There was one site I think posted some info but suddenly its disappeared ... the owner has given up on ME advocacy, and taken down the site. There is another site I might have posted on, I still need to check that.

 

[digital dog]

When my brother was ill with asthma as a child, they said it was because my mother was too overprotective. My mothers cousin had her asthmatic child taken away to boarding school...disgusting.

They are now able to prove that alopecia is autoimmune in nature and not due to stress.

Any women that has a migraine is stressed, weak or eating wrong. A man? Best get him down to neurology for a closer look incase it is serious.

Supposable psychosomatic illnesses are always attributed to women's conditions. The trouble comes when we go to the doctors with an illness (a very REAL illness) then we appear stressed as we feel so ghastly. That is when doctors make judgements.