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Histamines, Hg, SNPs, sources of meat.

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Sam7777, Nov 18, 2015.

  1. Sam7777

    Sam7777 Senior Member

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    Here's an article.
    http://alisonvickery.com.au/what-if-this-was-about-the-liver/

    For the facts.
    • I'm on cutler chelation, plus some of shades stuff.
    • I took too much huperzine (an AchE inhibitor) for too many weeks and probably also aggravated SIBO, so now I'm getting this really pronounced surge in histamine sensitivity I've not experienced in years.
    • Don't seem to benefit much from directly treating MTHFR, but I suspect perhaps some CBS issues.
    • But like many, I am skeptical of CBS. But I still have sulfide and thiol issues, and now with the histamine thing I am really, really having a hard time tolerating meat. And plus I can't afford the good stuff and don't have a 'hook up' with any legit farmers or hunters. So my diet is a wreck.

    I mean frankly, I've been trying to avoid the crazy raw vegan diet for about 4.5 years. But, due to all these really weird curve balls I'm sort of getting pushed away from Weston Price into just plant based diet. And some people speculate that, like with GAPS and SCD, the brown rice and organic corn I eat might be feeding more unfavorable gut flora which promote more histamine and other systemic conditions that increase chronic fatigue and make doing chelation challenging. And really its diet that has stumped me for 4 years of not being able to chelate properly.

    I then saw, that there's a connection between methylation and histamine. So maybe CBS makes histamine worse? In which case again, I lose on meat. And recently, I read pretty good arguments against saturated animal fats, specifically arachidonic acid, promoting histamine issues. . .Denise Menger's blog certainly put out some tough arguments. Maybe some people are sensitive to AA because of some underlying SNP.

    And meat stock is REALLY bad. Like evidently that just cooks up tons of histamine. I realize I haven't tolerated heavy stocks well, well ever. Frozen salmon didn't take to me well. Regular factory farmed meat is the worst, as it's been sitting around for some time on the shelf.

    I wonder what caffeine does to histamine. . .

    "
    Step 3 – High Protein, Nutrient Rich, Anti-Inflammatory Diet

    It is simply not necessary to do a “detox.” What is necessary is a nutritious diet. A poor diet will compromise the liver, whilst a high protein, nutrient rich diet, will give the liver all the ingredients it needs to detoxify itself.

    Simplistically, any toxins need to be avoided. Phase 1 needs anti-oxidant and glutathione rich nutrition. Phase 2 need protein, glutathione, and a sulfur rich diet.

    Step 4 – Rebuilding Phase 1

    I developed a bio-individual diet where my body stopped hyper-responding. Essentially it was organic, low in histamines, and paleo-ish.

    Once my body had stopped hyper-responding I started to work on manipulating my diet to include more phase 1 supportive foods.

    This has included in particular un-denatured whey protein, herbs and micro-sprouts (particularly broccoli sprouts), cruciferous vegetables, and citrus (other than grapefruit) which I tolerate."

    Now If you know Cutler, you know there's a lot of problems with this particular diet she is pointing out. When you cut out thiol foods and sulfur foods and sulfides (CBS diet). . .and now grains...legumes.. . meat....WTF do I eat? I mean, I denied that I had a thiol issue for a year, because frankly, I feel more 'stable' just eating queso every day. But I mean I spent 2014 completely wrecked, and not chelating.

    The only diet I ever thrived on and lost weight on and healed on. . .was like a low fat, low carb, pesco-vegetarian version of Weston Price. . It was a harsh diet, but it gave me 3 years of life in what has otherwise been persistent illness since the 7th grade. . .
     
  2. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    Northcoast NSW, Australia
    Two things have made a big impact on my histamine intolerance this year. First, a 3-day water fast, as Critterina talked about here, to reset immune system. It definitely helped. then I added FMN form of Vit B2. From then on I haven't needed any of my antihistamine supplements. And I've re-introduced a spoonful of yoguret and sauerkraut every other day. It might be that those w/ MAO snp get especial benefit, which I have. I wrote about my FMN experience, linked in my signature.

    Over the last 3 years I engaged in extensive detox, with 2014 being my year of coffee enemas. It's made a huge difference.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2015
    Sam7777 likes this.
  3. Sam7777

    Sam7777 Senior Member

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    I could still arguably have individual b vitamin issues, though pin pointing that has been elusive. Took a bunch of b vitamins a few weeks this summer with large bolus doses of RLA and got some interesting results that I wouldn't get with either on its own. But yes, its tricky.

    I took 6 drops of peppermint essential oil, a quercetin tab, a grape seed tab, and some Vit C and quelled my histamine fairly reasonably this morning, which would have reacted to the 3 giant cups of coffee. the coffee isn't bothering me persay, compared to tea, but the adrenaline is driving the histamine. And I ate leftover sweet potato and butter without incident, but no meat.
     
  4. caledonia

    caledonia

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    Cincinnati, OH, USA
    Mercury can cause CBS to express. This is in Cutler's Amalgam Illness book.

    Heartfixer and Ben Lynch both have CBS protocols.

    The Heartfixer protocol along with Cutler's free thiol list worked for me (this was before Ben Lynch developed his protocol). I maintain my transsulfuration pathway with some molybdenum.
     
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  5. Sam7777

    Sam7777 Senior Member

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    Now people are confusing me on what might be at hand regarding over vs under methylation driving up histamines.
    In my discussions at pheonix, so far I've stuck to the fact that I basically don't seem to get any sort of good or bad feedback from the Freddd protocol. And I haven't had the cash to do the whole methylation thing yet, its on the to do list.

    Freddd says its Adosyl b12 in particular that is anti-inflammatory, and that raising glutathione too much will lead to a greater need for his protocol and that the deficiencies in methylfolate and methylb12 are in fact something that creates mast cell issues. Fredd said he was on anti-histamines for 50 years.

    People also said that maybe activated niacin helps, or that activated B2 made a huge difference in histamine issues. But Fredd also said B2 messed his histamine up really bad. (I think it was that way until he later titrated it up to an acceptable dose along with the protocol). @stridor also had to use B2 to get methylation going and to allow him to do Cutler's protocol.

    Now recently I've been chelating a lot, and taking things that will inevitably raise glutathione some, like Haritaki. Granted, I'm trying to keep glutathione 'unchanged' so to speak, in line with Cutler's warnings. But the byproduct of chelation and liver herbs and all the coffee enemas I do is that your glutathione will spike, and maybe that is affecting my methylation status.

    I'll look at Ben Lynch's CBS stuff. CBS confuses the hell out of me, I won't lie. I've tried to take molybdenum some but didn't notice a lot. I might not have been looking for the right symptoms.
     
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  6. Sam7777

    Sam7777 Senior Member

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    Really interesting fact: I tried a 4 day fast about 14 months ago, and had a real reduction in inflamation. I felt so light and spry on the 5th morning and so uninflamed compared to say the last 4 years. Then the very first thing I ate on the 5th morning (maybe not the smartest), was a piece of smoked brisket. The insulting reaction was almost anaphylatic shock. It was awful. And I was confused to hell. It's only today really 14 months later that I realize this is because of a histamine reaction, it caused tightness in the chest, tachycardia, anxiety, malaise, drop in bp, a crash basically.

    So while fasting helps, the 'sensitivity' doesn't necessarily go away on its own. At least not without some direct strategy to reduce sensitivity.
     
  7. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    :eek:What a shock to the system!! In fact, I did the exact same thing as a teenager, w/ no histamine issues. And had the same reaction as you! never forgot it.

    I don't think you can use this example to say the sensitivity doesn't go away. You threw a bomb at your system.There's a need for prudence and intelligence. I continue to avoid most histaminic foods. But I tolerate some, also.
     
  8. Sam7777

    Sam7777 Senior Member

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    Well the reaction wasn't just a food reaction per say, it was very textbook histamine. Something at the time then I wasn't used to having, and generally didn't have. So after fasting it was very sensitive to a sudden change. I basically highlighted an underlying sensitivity to histamines I wasn't aware of.

    What I mean by it going away, is that since histamines build up, you would expect less of a reaction after fasting. But in reality if I was eating histamines then everyday I wasn't noticing a lot of the symptoms, I was desensitized. Basically my immune system was hair trigger after 4 days, which is the opposite of what I want. I think this makes a strong case to not rely on fasting in lieu of proper nutrients like Fredd's protocol. I need to focus on getting the histamine sensitivity down at the root cause.
     
  9. stridor

    stridor Senior Member

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    Yes @Sam7777 B2 was a tricky one. Mainly because I was supplementing when the firing up the methylation pathway depleted my stores. When I googled, it seems like running out of B2 is not very common and I added it to the list of things that I do not absorb well. @ahmo seems to be doing well with a transdermal approach and this seems like something that I should consider. I will wait until I run out of tabs and buy caps next time.

    To be clear, when taken transdermally, it leads to a person peeing "Vitamin B yellow"?

    Of course, this whole not absorbing things well and having histamine reactions to things we eat is suggestive of a damaged gut. I was on antihistamines but had to cut back because of prostate problems. I am now only taking quercetin and singulair, which does the same thing = strengthen the mast cell walls. I broke out in hives in the middle of the night x 1 last week but in general terms seem to be doing OK.

    I will be going for food allergy testing again. It was done years ago but I have gotten worse since then. I tried peanut butter after a year and my scalp broke out again. It has been ages since I have been able to add anything to my list. Definitely plateau'd.
     

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