The Real ME: A Stock Photography Resource for the Media
We’ve all seen them in the news stories about ME/CFS: the guy in a suit at the office, yawning; the beautiful woman sitting at her desk with her immaculate make-up and elegantly coiffed hair, hand to her head and looking slightly pained.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Histadelia / histamine, methyl donors, and diet

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by crzyakta, Jan 31, 2016.

  1. crzyakta

    crzyakta

    Messages:
    17
    Likes:
    1
    Northeast US
    Hi All,

    This post is regarding my life long struggle with what I believe is excess histamine production. I have always had the symptoms, hives (I used to get this with just stress), allergies, anxiety, inflammation, itchy skin (in dry weather this turns into rashes and my hands / feet peel, again I believe this is histamine release due to low moisture in the air), mild adult acne, although I control it to keep it mild (it can be triggered by high protein / histamine foods or sex), excess saliva, lean / fast digestion

    I am also homozygous for MTRR A66G (GG) and VDR TAQ (AA) / heterozygous for COMT V158M and H26H; I recently started a methylation protocol to combat my MTRR, started with 1mg twice a day of mB12 for 4 weeks, then bumped up to once a day 5mg mB12 along with 800mcg mfolate. I also eat healthy and organic, no hydrogenated fats, whole grains, free range, greens etc.


    I was hoping the mB12 would be the key to reduced histamine, but for the most part I still have the high histamine symptoms. From further reading I am thinking the methylation may only slightly help my high histamine and perhaps it is caused by something else, maybe DAO issues and the wrong bacteria / flora in my gut

    I seem to be okay with yogurt and milk, but most cheeses, cottage cheese, canned tuna, tuna fish salad, whey protein isolate powders, canned salmon will trigger cystic like acne.

    On to my questions:

    1. Why did the mB12 and mFolate not reduce histamine symptoms, could this be due methylation not being the root cause in my case?

    2. The 5mg mB12 makes me irritable and at times more anxious, could this be because my COMTs (i.e. my body has all the methyls it needs, and COMT will reduce my neurotransmitter breakdown)? Please elaborate on this, especially if you have experience with these SNPs or symptoms

    3. Histadelics are supposed to be undermethylators, however I have anxiety and at times depressive / emotional episodes, overall am sensitive. My question is, how can one be an undermethylator and have anxiety? I believe folks like Dr Lynch say its should always be the opposite?

    4. Can anxiety be triggered by excess dopamine and / or excess epinephrine / adrenaline? Perhaps I am an undermethylator but get anxiety for a different reason, maybe histamine driven?

    Any support and feedback is much appreciated, please share your experiences as well!

    Thanks
     
  2. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,329
    Likes:
    6,508
    Northcoast NSW, Australia
    I can't answer most of your questions. Don't get too identified with lists of over- and under-methylators as a label. There's in fact a lot of overlap in the symptoms, some things appear on both lists.

    In Freddd's Protocol there are 2 other critical components, along w/ MB12 and Mfolate, in the so-called Deadlock Quartet: AdenoB12 and carnitine, most often L Carnitine Fumarate. (LCF). There are links in my signature to several docs about this protocol.

    My histamine problems were drastically reduced when I started activated B2 (FMN). I've recorded this in a blog, also linked in my signature.
     
  3. picante

    picante Senior Member

    Messages:
    763
    Likes:
    875
    Helena, MT USA
    Wow, it amazes me that you tolerate yogurt. I haven't tolerated yogurt or sour cream in many years. Vinegar inflates me like a balloon.

    Whey protein isolate is loaded with free glutamic acid, so you may be reacting to that rather than histamine: http://www.truthinlabeling.org/hiddensources.html
     
  4. Peyt

    Peyt Senior Member

    Messages:
    410
    Likes:
    114
    until you have your histamine levels tested, don't assume you have high histamine
     
  5. crzyakta

    crzyakta

    Messages:
    17
    Likes:
    1
    Northeast US
    Hi Peyt,

    I've heard of a few different types of tests, is there any one that you recommend?

    Hi Picante,

    I've taken L glutamine at 10 grams a day without any issues besides having extra anxiety, I think the glutamine may have triggered some excitation but no additional acne from it.
     
  6. Peyt

    Peyt Senior Member

    Messages:
    410
    Likes:
    114
  7. picante

    picante Senior Member

    Messages:
    763
    Likes:
    875
    Helena, MT USA
    I'm not sure why you think glutamine could trigger acne or any of the skin reactions that you attribute to histamine. Don't you take the glutamine as a remedy for high histamine? :confused:

    However, it's no surprise that it might trigger more anxiety, since it can convert to glutamate in your brain. Start looking at all the glutamate-containing foods & supps. You may see that you don't tolerate any of them. http://www.truthinlabeling.org/hiddensources.html

    I agree with @Peyt. Time to test your histamine levels. And if it is high, time to separate out the histamine symptoms from the glutamate symptoms.

    upload_2016-2-2_12-12-51.png
    FIGURE 1. Summary of histamine-mediated symptoms. Adapted with permission from Maintz L et al. Dtsch Artzebl 2006;103:A3477-83. http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/85/5/1185.long#F2
     
  8. crzyakta

    crzyakta

    Messages:
    17
    Likes:
    1
    Northeast US
    Hi Picante, sorry if I was not clear, what I was trying to say is that glutamine, even in free form, never caused any digestive related issues (gas, acne, etc.), however it did make me feel 'wired' and figgity. even 10 - 15g did not affect my skin or histamine like conditions. I may have some sensitivities to glutamine (excitation related), but I am more concerned with the hives, adult acne, itching, allergies, headaches etc.

    I will get the histamine testing done. I took the glutamine for a gut rebuilding program and also took it about a decade ago when I was heavy weight lifting

    My histamine problems were drastically reduced when I started activated B2 (FMN). I've recorded this in a blog, also linked in my signature.

    Hi ahmo, what made you take FMN (B2), not too much literature connecting it to histamine, how did you link the two? the extra methyls seem to make me extra figgity / with a lot more excitation
     
    picante likes this.
  9. Sam7777

    Sam7777 Senior Member

    Messages:
    110
    Likes:
    52
    I recently started drinking homemade kefir. While it hasn't gotten rid of all my histamine issues, it is reducing most of the severity of my histamine and sulfur problems, and it is normalizing my bile flow and digestion.

    BACTERIA STRAINS COMMON TO MILK KEFIR GRAINS
    Lactobacillus acidophilus

    Lactobacillus brevis

    Lactobacillus casei

    Lactobacillus delbrueckii subsp. bulgaricus

    Lactobacillus delbrueckii subsp. delbrueckii

    Lactobacillus delbrueckii subsp. lactis

    Lactobacillus helveticus

    Lactobacillus kefiranofaciens subsp. kefiranofaciens

    Lactobacillus kefiri

    Lactobacillus paracasei subsp. paracasei

    Lactobacillus plantarum

    Lactobacillus rhamnosus

    Lactobacillus sake

    Lactococcus lactis subsp. cremoris

    Lactococcus lactis subsp. lactis

    Lactococcus lactis

    Leuconostoc mesenteroides subsp. cremoris

    Leuconostoc mesenteroides subsp. dextranicum

    Leuconostoc mesenteroides subsp. mesenteroides

    Pseudomonas

    Pseudomonas fluorescens

    Pseudomonas putida

    Streptococcus thermophilus

    YEAST STRAINS COMMON TO MILK KEFIR GRAINS

    Candida humilis

    Kazachstania unispora

    Kazachstania exigua

    Kluyveromyces siamensis

    Kluyveromyces lactis

    Kluyveromyces marxianus

    Saccharomyces cerevisiae

    Saccharomyces martiniae

    Saccharomyces unisporus
     
  10. roller

    roller wiggle jiggle

    Messages:
    451
    Likes:
    214
    @Sam7777
    where do you buy all these strains?
    i understand they have to be added?
     
  11. Sam7777

    Sam7777 Senior Member

    Messages:
    110
    Likes:
    52
    Theres a decent starter culture with 900 reviews on amazon.
     
  12. roller

    roller wiggle jiggle

    Messages:
    451
    Likes:
    214
    i cant find that :(
    how exactly would you recommend preparing the yoghurt?
    do you need for every batch a starter?
    what milk do you use?

    i would like to, but i cant get some yoghurt maker.
    things have to be very simple.
    milk is expensive here.
     
  13. crzyakta

    crzyakta

    Messages:
    17
    Likes:
    1
    Northeast US
    I would advise to use cuation, as the wrong bacterial strain can worsen your histamine issues, please check out this link, within the comments section the anonymous poster provides some strains avoid:

    http://doccarnahan.blogspot.com/2013/11/histamine-intolerance-could-this-be.html
     
  14. Sam7777

    Sam7777 Senior Member

    Messages:
    110
    Likes:
    52
  15. Sam7777

    Sam7777 Senior Member

    Messages:
    110
    Likes:
    52

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page