• Welcome to Phoenix Rising!

    Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of, and finding treatments for, complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia, long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.

    To become a member, simply click the Register button at the top right.

Hirsutism, thyroid and hormone profile

CantThink

Senior Member
Messages
800
Location
England, UK
When I reached 70mcg, seemingly overnight, the downy hair that had been increasing on my face disappeared. Also the moustache I'd been watching for some years as some sort of thyroid indicator. My body and underarm hair remain scant, improved from non-existent before starting methylation therapy. My adrenals seem to be less stressed at last. Such a close relationship between adrenals/thyroid.

@ahmo

Thanks for posting this. I have a peach fuzz vellus hair) overgrowth. I'm still increasing my NDT dose. This hair (I think) went away when I was on a higher dose than I'm on now. Plus I have some regrowth in one of my areas of alopecia, plus baby hairs trying to grow for the first time in 15 years!

I do have a very light 'tache' developing - I know my testosterone and DHEA are low. I don't have PCOS, but I do have estrogen dominance as my progesterone is very low. My thyroid is out of whack - gotta get that under control and see if it gets rid of my fuzzy face.
 

Ninan

Senior Member
Messages
523
I just found my old thyroid test results. Two years old.

S-T4 92 nmol/L (60-140)
S-T3 1,6 nmol/L (1,1-2,5)
S-TSH (Dxl) 2,5 mE/L (0,4-3,5)

Seems normal, right?
 
Last edited:

ahmo

Senior Member
Messages
4,805
Location
Northcoast NSW, Australia
@Ninan It's not just about more energy from thyroid supps. I've been on thyroid replacement since puberty. Having a wrong understanding of such things, I tried twice as a young adult to go off it. I never knew the word Hashimoto's until decades later. All my systems close down without thyroid replacement. And, as recently when I'd thought my healing meant I needed less thyroid, inadequate replacement first seems to fist show up in adrenal stress.

When I first collapsed w/ ME, my husband found some thyroid info, and I asked several MDs, including endocrinologist, to switch me from synthroid to natural thyroid or T3. I stuck w/ the GP who agreed. It still took 5 years working w/ him and compounding chemist to get uncover my reverse T3 (rT3) levels indicated I couldn't convert T4. When I switched to T3 only, life changed. This was the first thing to affect my downward spiral. Only 6 months ago, listening to the speakers at the Thyroid Summit, I found that the commercial T3, cytomel, contains corn flour, which is gluten cross-reactive.:bang-head: I'm now using compounded T3, 75mcg. I think this is the best replacement I've had in my life.

Datis Kharrazian and Rudy Dragone have been the most helpful to me of the thyroid experts. But I'm not a new thyroid pt., needed fairly particular understandings. I don't think Dragone has a book. I don't know Dr. Ain, author of the book you link. I'd put my money on Kharrazian. See if you can find a vid of him, I think from the site I linked.

I don't know about your levels. One of the things pointed out by several of the speakers I heard is that reference ranges themselves are inaccurate measures. One of those sites should give you more info re tests and levels. For the last 5 years I've only gone by symptoms, though I will request a test now that I've stabilized at my current dose.
 

CFS_for_19_years

Hoarder of biscuits
Messages
2,396
Location
USA
I just found my old thyroid test results. Two years old.

S-T4 92 nmol/L (60-140)
S-T3 1,6 nmol/L (1,1-2,5)
S-TSH (Dxl) 2,5 mE/L (0,4-3,5)

Seems normal, right?

Looks good. TSH is in the range where you'd want to be checked every 6 -12 months or so depending on how the rest of your health was holding up. Since your T4 and T3 are in good ranges, no treatment was needed at this time. As women get older (closer to age 60), they have a bigger chance of becoming hypothyroid and this can be viewed as the TSH that keeps creeping higher and higher.

Values can fluctuate from year to year and there's not always a clear trend. For instance, a TSH taken at a later date could very well go down a few points.

The range my lab uses for a TSH is close to yours, so by comparison my most recent TSH was 4.5, but my free T4 was good, so my endocrinologist just ordered a repeat test to be done in 3 months. I have been hypothyroid in the past and I know how I feel then. I don't feel hypothyroid at the moment, just the usual fatigue, and I didn't ask to be put on thyroid meds.

Taking thyroid meds suppresses the thyroid gland and sometimes it's just best to see if your body can right itself. On the other hand, clear hypothyroid symptoms, such as only being warm in a bed with a lot of covers is my sign. (I have cold hands and feet regardless, so those aren't useful signs to me.) Also, when I was hypothyroid, I was getting up at 3 p.m. so that was also a very clear sign to me.
 
Last edited:

Ema

Senior Member
Messages
4,729
Location
Midwest USA
There is a condition called Exogenous Cushing syndrome which is caused by taking glucocorticoids (same as corticosteroids), one of which I believe is Florinef.
Florinef is actually a mineralocorticoid, not a glucocorticoid, though they are closely related.

Florinef is used to replace aldosterone which helps to regulate fluid balance through electrolytes.

I don't think Cushing's is related to excess aldosterone but I haven't studied it very much. I'm thinking hyperaldosteronism is called Conn's syndrome.
 

Ema

Senior Member
Messages
4,729
Location
Midwest USA
@Ninan, my apologies if I missed this in your earlier posts, but is your hair the peach fuzz type or the terminal type (like the hair on your head)?
 

Ninan

Senior Member
Messages
523
Looks good. TSH is in the range where you'd want to be checked every 6 -12 months or so depending on how the rest of your health was holding up. Since your T4 and T3 are in good ranges, no treatment was needed at this time. As women get older (closer to age 60), they have a bigger chance of becoming hypothyroid and this can be viewed as the TSH that keeps creeping higher and higher.

Values can fluctuate from year to year and there's not always a clear trend. For instance, a TSH taken at a later date could very well go down a few points.

The range my lab uses for a TSH is close to yours, so by comparison my most recent TSH was 4.5, but my free T4 was good, so my endocrinologist just ordered a repeat test to be done in 3 months. I have been hypothyroid in the past and I know how I feel then. I don't feel hypothyroid at the moment, just the usual fatigue, and I didn't ask to be put on thyroid meds.

Taking thyroid meds suppresses the thyroid gland and sometimes it's just best to see if your body can right itself. On the other hand, clear hypothyroid symptoms, such as only being warm in a bed with a lot of covers is my sign. (I have cold hands and feet regardless, so those aren't useful signs to me.) Also, when I was hypothyroid, I was getting up at 3 p.m. so that was also a very clear sign to me.
Thanks, that brought some perspective. I'll have it checked again but then I guess it's probably not an issue now, but something to keep an eye on.
 

Ninan

Senior Member
Messages
523
@Ninan, my apologies if I missed this in your earlier posts, but is your hair the peach fuzz type or the terminal type (like the hair on your head)?

My hirsutism hair? I wish I had peach fuzz but no, it's like a man's hair.

Could it be too much DHEA?
 

Ema

Senior Member
Messages
4,729
Location
Midwest USA
My hirsutism hair? I wish I had peach fuzz but no, it's like a man's hair.

Could it be too much DHEA?
It could be too much DHT...you might look into saw palmetto which can block the conversion of T to DHT. DHEA can also over convert to DHT so you could look at your level. You can also test DHT in the blood.

Most labs will also test free and total testosterone to skip all the calculations.

If you are testing thyroid, I would make sure to get your free thyroid hormone levels tested (FT3 and FT4) along with your TSH. I would look at stopthethyroidmadness.com first to read about thyroid, then tiredthyroid.com. The Kharraziac book is a good one but deals a lot more with autoimmune thyroiditis (which is the most common kind in the US but may not be what you are dealing with).

Are you taking DHEA? DHEA can certainly convert to DHT as well.
 

Ninan

Senior Member
Messages
523
It could be too much DHT...you might look into saw palmetto which can block the conversion of T to DHT. DHEA can also over convert to DHT so you could look at your level. You can also test DHT in the blood.

Most labs will also test free and total testosterone to skip all the calculations.

If you are testing thyroid, I would make sure to get your free thyroid hormone levels tested (FT3 and FT4) along with your TSH. I would look at stopthethyroidmadness.com first to read about thyroid, then tiredthyroid.com. The Kharraziac book is a good one but deals a lot more with autoimmune thyroiditis (which is the most common kind in the US but may not be what you are dealing with).

Are you taking DHEA? DHEA can certainly convert to DHT as well.
I just found the thyroid madness site. Very interesting.

No, I'm not taking DHEA.
 

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
Here is a link on cortisol resistance with symptoms:

http://annals.org/article.aspx?articleid=706919

Here is a link to a thread on a seminar on pediatric ME/CFS given in Sweden by Bansal:

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ockholm-dr-bansals-talk-youtube-nov-19.33978/

In this he discussed new research about people with CFS/ME (he is UK based) having a new type of glucocorticoid resistance.

Its possible, but not proven, that ME might induce big issues with cortisol responses, and this might impact with symptoms including (from the first link): chronic fatigue, hypertension, hypokalemic acidosis, hirsuitism, failure of circadian patterns, and others.

Please note that glucocorticoid resistance and cortisol resistance are not quite the same. I have not yet investigated this sufficiently to be sure we can treat them the same.
 
Last edited:

Ninan

Senior Member
Messages
523
Thanks, @alex3619, that's interesting! Not sure it's applicable to me, though, since I seem to have normal cortisol and low aldosterone.
 

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
Cortisol and glucocorticoid resistance do not necessarily correlate with blood levels. If you read the thread I equate it to being like type 2 diabetes. Most type 2 diabetics have normal to high insulin, at least until they have had it a long time. However the insulin is not working properly.

The big issue is that this is new research, I don't think its properly published, and we are only just beginning to consider what it means.

I raise the issue because its another possible cause of symptoms. I am not sure anyone knows how to treat it though.