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High sarcosine?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by dbkita, Mar 21, 2013.

  1. dbkita

    dbkita Senior Member

    Just got back a both a serum and urine amino acid profile.

    One of the results was very high urine sarcosine 70.3 (0.3-27.3) and high plasma sarcosine 6.3 (0.0-4.0). But my urine and plasma glycine levels are normal. Moreover my plasma methionine levels are 33.6 (0-41). My urine methionine levels were middle of the range more or less (though urine is not considered as useful as plasma for methionine).

    As per this reference http://www.metametrixinstitute.org/file.axd?file=2008/12/Page-234.pdf

    I am taking 100 mg of b2 a day and my iron levels have been fine (both serum and ferritin) for some time now. So unless there is a depletion of THF the sarcosine to glycine reaction should be open and clear.

    But as I said my methionine levels are high normal. Then again my homocysteine is a 10.0.

    On the other hand maybe my SAMe / SAH ratio is too high and the Glycine N-methyltransferase enzyme is working over time and trying to drive the equilibrium gradient backwards.

    As I said though my glycine levels are heart of the range even despite me supplementing 8-10 grams at bed time. Also I should point out I ingest a lot of protein each day (like 240 grams / day).

    So I am not sure what to make of this.

    I was also high normal to slightly elevated in BCAAs which would fit my catabolic issues.
    Amino-adipic acid was also high but that may be due to high normal lysine and my taking high amounts of B3 (500 mg early and 250 mg at bedtime). I wonder if a possible high SAM / SAH ratio is the reason why I like the niacinamide?

    Anyways let me know your thoughts.

    I wonder if it time to get a HDRI methylation panel and find out which side of the 8-ball I am right now. Anyone have any other methylation panels they prefer? I had a NutraEval a couple of years ago which was useful for some things but not particularly for methylation / folate cycle from what I could tell.

  2. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

  3. dbkita

    dbkita Senior Member

    Thanks yeah I saw that. I am having the tests repeated but morning fasting pre methylation support. My doctor agrees based on my other markers that if the sarcosine is normal than this in fact represents a strong shift up in activity of glycine-N-methyltransferase in an attempt to lower my SAMe/SAH ratio. Or the sarcosine remains high and I have a methyl trap going despite taking 5000 mcg of active B12s. So we will. My doctor already agreed to a HDRI test which would be definitive.
  4. dbkita

    dbkita Senior Member

    Ok I guess I will have to untangle this on my own.
  5. BFG


    I recently did the NutrEval test and my results came out with high sarcosine also. My alpha aminoadipic acid was also elevated. My results are here if you wanted to take a look. http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...nd-2100-gi-effects-results.24206/#post-370714

    From what I read so far I think this means a folate deficiency.Have you tested your (FIGlu)Formiminoglutamic Acid ? That is another indication of folate depletion.

    I am also taking 5000 mcg of jarrow methyl b12 and only stopped 2 days before the nutreval test. I wonder if this can cause the depleted folate?
  6. aaron_c

    aaron_c Senior Member

    Hi @dbkita

    Did you ever come to a conclusion as to what was happening with your glycine and sarcosine? As you may know, Rich Van K thought it was not uncommon for glycine to be low in PWME, but I can't seem to find out why that would be...or at least why it would be lower than cysteine and glutamic acid (which, along with glycine, are necessary to make glutathione). Are you aware of any theories that might explain this?
  7. Tunguska

    Tunguska Senior Member

    I was also curious about this.

    With 240g of protein no doubt having substantial methionine, and high glycine intake, doesn't that overload GNMT enough to make a bunch of sarcosine, to be expected?

    Also vitamin A (retinyl palmitate, which I took/take, dunno about you): http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ed-depression-isotretinoin.12117/#post-206042

    This is interesting in two ways for me. I need high glycine for structural problems but need to make sure it's not contributing to other issues. Same for vit A (on top of accutane concerns).

    Second, sarcosine is a supp used for schizophrenia and it helps as a stand-alone supplement, wonder if can't exploit this - can the sarcosine made from GNMT end up at NMDA receptors in the brain? in high enough quantities? Reworded, why is (or would... be) high sarcosine undesirable?

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