The 12th Invest in ME Research Conference June, 2017, Part 2
MEMum presents the second article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
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High MCV/MCH and methyl folate vs folinic acid?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Changexpert, Mar 5, 2015.

  1. Changexpert

    Changexpert Senior Member

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    My MCV is 98 fL (rr 79-97) and MCH is 32.3 pg (rr 26.6 - 33). MCV has not been moving at all even though I've always supplemented with folic acid that's in multivitamin. MCH has been actually going up very gradually, 0.1 in two months time.

    On the other hand, my RBC folate was 847 ng/mL (rr 499-1504). Hemoglobin, hematocrit, and platelets levels have been declining in the last three months as well, even though they are all within reference range. My platelets level is almost at the lowest reference range, 170x10^3/uL (rr 150 - 379).

    I am still waiting on my kit from 23andme to arrive, so I do not know what kind of gene profile I have. I haven't been supplementing with mb12 recently, but did so for about 3-4 months in June to October of 2014. Blood test results were recorded anywhere from December to January of this year.

    Would it be wise for me to supplement with methyl folate? Would that help with MCV and MCH situation? I heard MCV level is criticial and even 1 unit over the reference range is considered "unhealthy."

    Another question I have is, when is folinic acid ever better than methyl folate? I've read that it is not wise to supplement with folic acid or folinic acid in Freddd's post, and was wondering if folinic acid has any purpose in that case. I would sincerely appreciate your responses.

    @Freddd
     
  2. SwanRonson

    SwanRonson Senior Member

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    If I understand correctly, high MCV could be either folate, b12 or b6. Those are the three deficiencies that cause macrocytic anemia. To me, it would make sense to start supplementing with those b's you are not currently taking like b6(as P5P) and b12(as 5-star methyl). I believe P5P is also a cofactor in hemoglobin synthesis, so that might be another clue. Regardless, it may take a few months for MCV to come down. The average life span of a red blood cell is 90 days I think.

    Someone else can correct me on all of this if I've made a mistake.
     
  3. Changexpert

    Changexpert Senior Member

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    Thanks for the response. My B6 blood level is within the reference range, actually on the higher end. Also, I am very sensitive to supplements that include thiol, and B6 is one of them. I tried taking p5p 50 mg/day and it gave me very negative reactions. Hair shedding increased and I was irritated all the time. I want to try taking methylfolate, but at the same time, I've read too many posts of people having negative reaction to it from overmethylation.
     
  4. SwanRonson

    SwanRonson Senior Member

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    Jumping straight into 50mg is a lot. Might be better to start with a very low dose b-complex, like a 1/4 of a NatureMade B-Complex. After adjusting to it, you could then do single day experiments with p5p upping 1mg each time until you find your comfort zone. You can do the same thing with Enzymatic meb12 starting with a crumb.

    It took me a couple of weeks to even tolerate 1/4 of a NatureMade. That's very low dose. Close to the RDA on each. Point is, that you really have to start low and go slow on supplements. Especially when taking things daily. I'm not a big fan of taking anything every day.
     
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  5. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    I had an elevated MCV and MCH. It was from B12 deficiency. It can be from other causes, hypothyroid, for instance.

    I wouldn't take the folate without the B12. Taking folate with B12 deficiency can be neurotoxic.

    Low hematocrit and hemoglobin could possibly be low iron.

    The cause of this could be from gut dysbiosis. There can be deficiencies and excesses of nutrients.
     
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  6. Changexpert

    Changexpert Senior Member

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    I agree with starting low with supplements. I've been supplementing B6 for a year ranging from 2 mg to 8 mg a day. I never knew I was reacting negatively to B6 until I tried B-complex that had 25 mg of B6 (not p5p). After realizing that, I did some research to find out that p5p can be consumed without much negative reaction to most people, so I jumped on the bandwagon. Clearly, it was too much for me to handle.

    If my blood level showed that I was deficient in B6, I would go back to take p5p in smaller dosage. I am still not sure why I am so sensitive to thiol, and my guess is because of gut dysbiosis as some people have pointed out.
     
  7. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    @Changexpert I am sorry if you already mentioned it elsewhere, but do you take magnesium? P5P can be very toxic if not taken at list with the same mg of magnesium. When I took P5P was 10mg with all the other Bs + at least 10mg of magnesium (usually more).

    Have you read the "start low and go slow" guide by forum member caledonia?
     
  8. Changexpert

    Changexpert Senior Member

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    I think the multivitamin that I used to take had low amount of magnesium, maybe 70 mg? I just don't react well to B6 or P5P for some reason. I think it's due to heavy metal toxicity or liver function impairment.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2015

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