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High-intensity exercise

Discussion in 'Other Health News and Research' started by Calathea, Feb 28, 2012.

  1. Calathea

    Calathea Darkness therapy

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    I was interested to read this article on high-intensity exercise. It's about healthy people rather than people with ME, but it's about abnormal responses to very small amounts of exercise. Can anyone extrapolate anything useful from this?
  2. Marco

    Marco Old blackguard

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    Hi Calathea

    I've recorded last night's BBC Horizon programme on this and look forward to watching it.

    I'm curious as to which genes are involved.
  3. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    Very interesting ... I wonder if there's different approaches that work better for people who won't improve at all from high-intensity exercise. Or at least approaches that are more effective and efficient compared to other approaches.

    Similar genetic predispositions could also account for why some people improve with GET, on the off-chance that they all aren't misdiagnosed or spontaneously recovering to start with.
  4. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    The Horizon programme last night was very interesting. Nottingham university have identified specific genes that will show if you are a high low or non responder to exercise (of any kind) i would be very interested to know how PWME would look on their identified genes, i wonder if it would play a role? im almost tempted to write to them and suggest it. I wonder if i am a non responder as most of my life i have been unable to get fit, even when i could exercise. At one point in my life i was doing a lot of walking swimming and biking, i was definately slimmer and fitter than i am now after being housebound for 4 years, but i couldnt achieve the levels of fitness one would expect with this type and amount of exercise.
    Another example of this for me is that i lived at the top of a very large hill when my kids where little and had used to push them up in a pushchair everyday - it always utterly wiped me pout and never got even a tiny bit easier - which i expected it would after years of walking up it daily with a loaded pushchair.
    All the best, Justy
  5. Calathea

    Calathea Darkness therapy

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    I didn't watch the programme, but from reading the article, surely the non-responders were a minority, and they were only people who didn't respond to a specific programme of small amount of HIT (love the acronym)? Or is this entirely separate from the short bursts of exercise business?

    For reference, I was never into sports but always kept fit prior to getting ME by running around like a mad thing at school (climbing four flights of stairs wearing a ludicrously big rucksack about every 40 minutes, that sort of thing), and I was very busy with music, which included playing percussion and lugging around big percussion instruments (and I'm only a small thing of 4'11). I don't recall ever having problems with sore muscles, breathlessness or what have you.
  6. maryb

    maryb iherb code TAK122

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    From what I can remember about the program last night the figure for those who responded well to excercise was about 15%, what a shock for all those gym bods.
    The volunteer presenter didn't improve his VO2 max after 4 weeks because he had the none responder gene, which the scientist had already predicted from his results.
    Well worth watching but bad news for those of us forced to rest for most of the day:(
  7. czecher

    czecher

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    I find this very interesting as well. I've not seen the program either, but this very much describes my lifelong experience with trying to maintain some sort of fitness. I have two siblings with phys-ed degrees, so I was constantly compared to their level of enjoyment of exercise. My experience with exercise has always been negative, ever since I can remember. I could never understand how anyone could enjoy cycling or running for miles on end. All I ever experienced was exhaustion with minimal exertion. I believe the 'gene' approach makes perfect sense. BTW, my two children both have problems with early fatigue with exercise.
  8. Calathea

    Calathea Darkness therapy

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    Now you mention it, good point - I was fine with the fairly high level of exercise involved in my daily activity at school, but I hated sport. I can't remember how much of that was about how it made me feel physically, and how much was about simply hating team sports, the cliques, poor ability to do things like catch balls, being disadvantaged by being small, being a terrible swimmer (not helped by myopia and a tendency to ear infections) and so forth. It was a point of honour to bunk off games and hide in the music department, and we argued over who would get their piano lesson during double lacrosse. So I'm not entirely sure how I fared in terms of strenuous exercise. I mainly look back at how much running around and stair-climbing we took for granted at that school in astonishment, as it's unthinkable today. No wonder we were all so slim!
  9. charityfundraiser

    charityfundraiser Senior Member

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    That would have been good additional information for the article- how well do people without the genes respond to normal intensity exercise.

    That's an interesting question, how people with CFS relate to these genes. I wonder if I have these genes because before I got sick, exercise always made me feel good, including short high intensity runs like would happen in school days between classes. I used to run cross-country during high school and liked to swim as well.

    While people with CFS can't do this intensity of exercise, I'm curious what difference trading off time for a little higher intensity would have. I might try 5 seconds of slow jogging or jumping jacks or something now that I am at a level where I don't think that experiment will do much harm.
  10. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    In the programme they explained that peopel with the low response gene dont respond well to any exercise not just high intensity. The most interesting part for me was about HIT changing the way the body processes glucose, so that risk of diabetes dropped substantially after just 3 mins of HIT a week over a 6 week period - even in the non exercise responders, they were still getting this major benefit. It was their lung and cardiac capacity that didnt increase. I often worry about diabetes as i have a terrible sugar addiction and sugar can make me feel very very strange - I also have gained weight since being ill and am quite high risk for diabetes.

    I wonder if PWME who are still relatively sick could handle HIT? i know its a crazy question really - i just wonder what effect it would have on us. So frustrated with not being able to be more physical and fitter
  11. Calathea

    Calathea Darkness therapy

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    The thing about ME is that we get unnaturally severe responses from even short bursts of exercise. I think HIT would probably knock us out badly. However, HIT versus longer periods of lower-intensity activity would be interesting to look into in terms of how badly we crashed. What would be more useful would be if we could translate that into practical applications, e.g. walking to a shop a few minutes away vs. having a shower.
  12. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

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    Interesting article (against preconceptions) - now can he look into ME.
  13. Artstu

    Artstu Senior Member

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    Those three 20 second HIT sessions would realistically take around 10 minutes to perform with a warm up and cool down. So a bit misleading and they really should have explained it in a bit more detail so people can give it a go.
  14. aprilk1869

    aprilk1869 Senior Member

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    Perhaps this is of interest?

    MCT1 genetic polymorphism influence in high intensity circuit training: a pilot study.
    Cupeiro R, Benito PJ, Maffulli N, Caldern FJ, Gonzlez-Lamuo D.
    Source

    Laboratory of Exercise Physiology, Department of Health and Human Performance, Universidad Politecnica de Madrid, Madrid, Spain.
    Abstract

    Monocarboxylate Transporter 1 (MCT1) mediates the transport of the main fraction of lactate across the sarcolemma. A common polymorphic MCT1 variant has been identified, but its role in high intensity exercise performance has not been defined. We investigated the influence of MCT1 A1470T polymorphism (rs1049434) on lactate accumulation after high intensity circuit training. Ten men aged 20-26 performed three controlled circuit training (CWT) sessions at 60%, 70%, and 80% of the 15 repetition maximum (15RM), in non-consecutive days. CWT included three sets of a circuit of eight exercises, obtaining lactate measurements immediately after each set had been completed. Two independent variables were analysed: MTC1 genotypes according to the presence or absence of the A1470T polymorphism, and the intensity of circuit training. Genotype distributions were in Hardy-Weinberg equilibrium, being 30% wild-type, 50% heterozygotes, and 20% mutated homozygotes. Mean lactate concentration at 80% of 15RM were significantly higher than the mean lactate values at the other intensities (p<0.01). Significant differences between genetic groups were found in the lactate accumulation slope at 80% of 15RM (p=0.02) and in the maximal lactate concentration reached by all subjects in the study (L(max)) (p=0.03). The carriers of the A1470T polymorphism in the MTC1 gene seem to exhibit a worse lactate transport capability into the less active muscle cells for oxidation.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19850519
  15. charityfundraiser

    charityfundraiser Senior Member

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    Ah thanks, that is interesting. Yes, the insulin sensitivity is interesting. Did they say in the program whether people got the same change in insulin sensitivity from normal intensity exercise?
  16. xrunner

    xrunner Senior Member

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    It's the type of exercise that I've been doing for a year or so. I first learnt it from Dr Myhill's website, but it's based on weights rather than cycling (though I have done that as well). She says it's the type of exercise that's right for mitochondria.
    At first I thought it was nonsense as it went against everything I had learnt when I was in sports. After actually doing it, I've changed my mind. I think it's very effective. It works, you can get really fit by doing just 10-15min per week but it's harder than low-intensity.
  17. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    It was specifically the HIT that caused the benefits re insulin sensitivity.
  18. Marco

    Marco Old blackguard

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    Here's an earlier paper cited by Cupeiro et al :


    http://lib.bioinfo.pl/paper:10590411

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