High fat meals induces mild endotoxemia

[Emootje]

The Leaky Gut Theory of Why Animal Products Cause Inflammation:

The Exogenous Endotoxin Theory:

 

[CJB]

I know I'll never eat another sausage mcmuffin. But otherwise, ????

These studies that try to analyze what a food fraction does in our bodies miss the whole food idea. Just as in the chocolate example. It may contain high levels of endotoxins (due to the way it's processed), but has a balancing anti-oxidant action.

In order to convince me, they need to explain this in terms of the French Paradox and the Intuit Paradox.

Then there's the whole other side of the picture - grains are inflammatory - the paleo diet

I thought this bit was particularly interesting and logical:

One for Me and One for You

Some plants, like blueberries or similar fruits, have evolved a strategy of “give a little to get a little.” Critters (us included) eat these fruits, then pass the seeds in a convenient, warm fertilized package that all but guarantees the next generation. Sewage systems aside, this is a reasonable trade off. The critter that eats the blueberries gets a little nutrition in exchange for spreading the blueberry seeds for subsequent generations of blueberries.

Other plants take a different approach and try to dissuade all predation by shrouding themselves in nasty substances that are either irritants or outright poisons. Consider poison oak or poison ivy. These plants have developed chemical warfare capabilities and use oils that have a tendency to work their way through the skin of animals that come in contact with the leaves. This oil sets off an alarm that irritates the immune system. Lymphocytes and other white blood cells attack the oil and in the process release pro-inflammatory chemicals that lead to a rash. Keep this idea in mind as we talk about grains, as it will help you to wrap your mind around what is happening when we eat this “staple” food.
If we compare grains to the strategies listed above, “give a little, get a little,” like the blueberry, or “bugger off,” like the poison oak, we see that grains are much more like poison oak. If a critter eats a grain, that’s it for the grain. That does not mean that the grain goes down without a fight! Grains are remarkably well equipped for chemical warfare.

Frankly, I think when we got away from smaller, family farms and into the world of commercial agriculture and processing to increase shelf life, we lost some key elements of nutrition that were formerly unknown (K2 in grass-fed butter for instance). It's quite possible that grass-fed beef has some nutrient fraction that protects against inflammation and IMO eaten in appropriate amounts, it's a very nutrient-dense, healthful food.

Speaking of appropriate amounts, I think "high fat" and "high calorie" are two entirely different things and it looks like these studies were both high fat and high calorie. We can handle all kinds of diets (speaking of a healthy population) if they're relatively low in calories, or the calories are being burned by physical activity. When the body has to store excess calories, that's when the trouble starts.

Figuring out what to eat is really tough with ME/CFS. I don't think we can afford to rule out anything. I'm a vegetarian at heart, but my body needs animal-based foods. I think humans have a good intuitive sense of what their body needs at any given time if we're raised with exposure to a wide variety of fresh, wholesome food. But we seem to have lost it. It's the Twinkie Syndrome (not to be confused with the Twinkie defense).

 

[searcher]

I am with CJ as well. I am also a vegetarian at heart, and ate mostly vegetarian when I got sick. I really thought meat was an indulgence and unhealthy. But switching over to paleo has been better than any other treatment I've tried-- my gut settled down and my acid reflux is gone. I think, in my case, grains were much more inflammatory than grass-fed meat. I didn't experiment much with diet my first six months being sick since doctors are so dismissive of its effect (and tend to recommend a high-grain diet anyway,) but now believe it should be a first-line treatment,

 

[Sallysblooms]

I make sure to eat meat. Not eating it was very bad for me.

We eat mostly veggies, sea veggies, seafood and fruit but we eat meat most every day. Low fat is fine, but you have to have balance.

The carbs and grains are usually a problem. Eating no refined sugar, no bad carbs/gluten will do a lot for health since they cause inflammation. That is healing my nerves and so that is improving my POTS ( Autonomic Neuropathy.) After the diet is changed, the supplements can heal the body. Blood sugar needs to be kept even.

 

[Patrick*]

Here's another vote for paleo-type diet. My stomach symptoms mostly disappeared when I switched to a low-carb, no grain, no sugar diet. I eat plenty of high fat foods and my GI tract feels much better than it ever did before -- even before I came down with ME.

 

[Sallysblooms]

Oh, NUTS are an amazing part of the diet also. Coconut oil, coconut manna too.

 

[mellster]

Yeah, this topic is really complex and I doubt that there is a single right approach although for different patients different diets may work. Just consider the carbs conundrum, needed for ATP, generally nowadays simple or refined carbs are shunned and have a bad rep due to the fact that they are instantly absorbed and cause a spike and could potentially increase the risk of developing diabetes amongst other symptoms. On the other hand, get this, Pimentel actually favors those carbs that are absorbed readily as he thinks the complex ones will be food for the bad gut bacteria in SIBO, so he recommends a low and simple carbs diet mostly. What now?