1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
AVIVA Semi-Finals: National ME/FM Action Network is competing for $100,000
The National ME/FM Action Network in Canada is competing for $100,000 for biomedical research of ME and FM in the Aviva Community Fund contest. With thanks to all who helped, they made it through the first round of voting into the Semi-Finals.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

High dose vitamin C reduces Epstein-Barr viral infection 6/3/14 via Life Extension Update

Discussion in 'Other Health News and Research' started by ggingues, Jun 6, 2014.

  1. ggingues

    ggingues $10 gift code at iHerb GAS343 of $40

    Messages:
    4,112
    Likes:
    951
    Concord, NH
    Tuesday, June 3, 2014. On May 3, 2014, the journalMedical Science Monitor reported a benefit for intravenous vitamin C in patients with high levels of antibodies to the Epstein-Barr virus (EBV), which has been implicated in chronic fatigue syndrome, Burkett's lymphoma, Hodgkin's disease and some autoimmune conditions. "This is, to our knowledge, the first clinical study of ascorbic acid and EBV infection," announce authors Nina A. Mikirova and Ronald Hunninghake of the Riordan Clinic in Wichita.

    The duo evaluated data from 35 men and women diagnosed with chronic fatigue or other conditions who had Epstein-Barr virus antibodies measured before and after treatment with 7.5 to 50 grams of intravenous vitamin C. Thirty-two of the 35 subjects showed improvement following vitamin C treatment. While the level of IgG antibodies to the EBV early diffuse antigen (EBV EA IgG) averaged 80 AU (arbitrary units) before treatment, post-treatment levels averaged 46 AU. Subjects who had five or more vitamin C infusions had a significantly greater percent decrease in EBV antibodies over time in comparison with infected individuals evaluated by the clinic who did not receive intravenous vitamin C, with EBV EA IgG levels showing a decline in association with increasing treatments.

    cont'd

    http://www.lef.org/newsletter/2014/...icle&utm_content=Button&utm_campaign=2014Wk18
     
  2. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

    Messages:
    8,724
    Likes:
    7,997
    UK
    Full paper in the NIH archive here:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4015650/

    I'm interested in this, having recently started taking liposomal Vit C (that is, Vit C encapsulated in lipid nanospheres, which get a high dose rapidly into your bloodstream so that you can approach IV doses).

    I had IV Vit C and 45g/day oral Vit C during my first illness with ME (I've since remitted and relapsed) but they didn't seem to do a thing for me. Now I'm wondering if I was on the IV long enough and how much of the oral Vit C was being absorbed: and if I had improvement in symptoms that I didn't realise were ME-related so didn't attribute them correctly. Years ago, so I can't remember enough about it.

    I've been on lipo Vit C for two weeks now and this is my ninth day in a row without a sinus headache (usually get two or more a week). Fingers crossed.
     
    minkeygirl, maryb and golden like this.
  3. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl Narcissism = lack of self awareness

    Messages:
    2,323
    Likes:
    1,508
    Left Coast
    @Sasha have you noticed if this has helped the fog caused by sinus headaches? Which Liposomal C are you taking and what dose?
     
  4. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

    Messages:
    8,724
    Likes:
    7,997
    UK
    It's helped everything with the sinus headaches (if it is indeed the Vit C that's doing this): my normal sinus headache symtoms are pain, debility and malaise, finding it hard to concentrate, and find fast-moving TV impossible to watch and a bit of sensitivity to flashing light, possibly (not the norm for me). Because I haven't been getting the headaches, I haven't been getting any of these associated symptoms.

    I'm not sure if I've missed the point of your question! Let me know if so.

    I'm taking LivOn Labs's product - they've just changed the name in Europe to Altrient-C but elsewhere it's still called Lypo-Spheric:

    http://www.amazon.com/Lypo-Spheric-...402159717&sr=8-1&keywords=liposomal vitamin c

    I started at 1/4 packet (0.25g) a day and have gradually worked up to 2g/day.

    It's expensive - some people try to make their own but I can't speak to its efficacy.
     
  5. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl Narcissism = lack of self awareness

    Messages:
    2,323
    Likes:
    1,508
    Left Coast
    @Sasha I never had headaches with my sinus stuff. My biggest problem with my sinus stuff (if it is sinus vs just miserable inflammation) is the fatigue and feeling like my brain is wrapped in cotton.

    Yes it's really expensive. I was reading on how to make your own but I just don't have the energy or brain power to do it.

    Something to keep in mind.
     
    Sasha likes this.
  6. natasa778

    natasa778 Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,486
    Likes:
    1,351
    London UK
    I have those same symptoms, exactly the same! How interesting, hope it continues to work for you. I cannot take even the smallest amount of vitC as it starts causing bad kidney pain after only a couple of days. Wondering (hoping!) that liposomal form might not cause the same problem, but reluctant to spend £££ to find out the hard way :(
     
    Sasha likes this.
  7. sueami

    sueami Senior Member

    Messages:
    185
    Likes:
    140
    Front Range Colorado
    I've made my own lipo c with the ultrasonic jewelry cleaner, the lecithin and ascorbic acid. I've had unhappy gut reactions to it, not sure if it was the lecithin or the fact that it wasn't really liposoming it and so I was running into bowel tolerance issues at 5 g or so.
    I bought the mercola lipo C but now I'm reading all sorts of negative reviews that claim it isn't really liposomal form. How confident are you in LivOn lab's version of it, Sasha? I might try that next.
     
    Sasha likes this.
  8. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

    Messages:
    8,724
    Likes:
    7,997
    UK
    Hi @natasa778 - yes, it sounds as though we are sinusitis twins! My sinusitis doesn't seem to be related to an infection - I don't have any yukky mucus so it's never been treated with antibiotics. People here have suggested it's my immune system playing up in some way. Painkillers don't work on it and the only treatment that has led to a reduction in frequency of headaches so far has been nasal irrigation, though I've become concerned lately that doing that in the long-term might muck up the microbe ecosystem in my sinuses so I stopped it a couple of weeks ago. If anything, I'd therefore have expected my headaches to increase.

    Yes, the lipo-C is expensive, that's for sure. I'm fortunate that I can afford it for now, and it's easily worth it to me not to be totally incapacitated for a couple of days a week. I've also been trying oil-pulling, which I've been doing for about a month now (I'd decided that May was going to be sinus month!) but the timing suggests to me that it's the Vit C.

    My understanding is that the lipo-C doesn't go to your kidneys but don't trust me on that! I'm no medic.

    @sueami - I've read reviews on both the Mercola and the LivOn and there seems to be a bit of a trade war going on there! The LivOn product has nearly 400 reviews, many of them glowing, on Amazon but some of them at least seem to me to be shills. On the other hand, there are plenty of reviews that are very positive about its health effects that complain about the disgusting taste (I'm following a tip to use a cappucino frother to blend it in properly, despite a possibility that it might muck up the nanospheres but it tastes pleasant and not sour, which I think it would if Vit C was coming out of the lipid layer).

    I guess that's also a reason for feeling confident that it's lipsomally encapsulated - I think I'd be tasting sourness if it wasn't (I gather that people who do their own find that their mixture tastes sour, which indicates that the encapsulation is only partial).

    I'd be tempted to try to DIY but LivOn use (if memory serves) lecithin that has had its 'soyness' removed. I'm trying to avoid soy and am not sure that if I bought soy lecithin it would be of that quality.
     
    sueami and natasa778 like this.
  9. natasa778

    natasa778 Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,486
    Likes:
    1,351
    London UK
    same here re no mucus etc, and nasal irrigation about the only thing that helps somewhat - I usually feel slighly better after one for a few hours only ... most of my 'sinus episodes' happen just before periods, but guess that would not apply to you :). On the other hand the hormones could be temp disabling the immune system, so the suggestion that it is the immune system playing up (and letting whatever to reactivate) is likely very valid. Think I'll take the plunge and try the liposomal version...
     
  10. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

    Messages:
    8,724
    Likes:
    7,997
    UK
    I'm a female 'Sasha'! :lol: Though I'm going through the menopause and my cycle is really messed up, so if there's a link with my cycle, it's hard for me to spot it.

    I'm not even partway through my first packet and I'd say it's well worth it if the sinus headaches continue to hold off - they're completely incapacitating and I just have to go to bed and try to sleep them off when they happen.

    I'd be very interested to hear if you have the same response.
     
    natasa778 likes this.
  11. sueami

    sueami Senior Member

    Messages:
    185
    Likes:
    140
    Front Range Colorado
    Okay, the tip about sourness is great. Thank you! I do get sourness with my homemade stuff. Interestingly, there is a second option for home lipo C that uses a stick blender. I might try that and see if I can get a solution that has no sourness.

    Also, you can get a sunflower lecithin powder to make your own with. That's one of the benefits of it to my mind, but if I can't get it liposomal, then it's a waste of time. Although the lecithin and the C are beneficial, so not a total loss.
     
  12. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

    Messages:
    8,724
    Likes:
    7,997
    UK
    On LivOn's site, it recommends against using a blender (putting the stuff into smoothies, I think) in case it disrupts the lipid layer but as I said, if that was happening I think the mixture would taste sour. I only blend it for a few seconds, though. I don't understand the physics/chemistry of the encapsulation enough to know if blending is likely to be a bad thing, as LivOn suggest, and very different from using a jewellry cleaner (which works by vibration, not mechanical impact).

    Some people who have used the method you're using agree with you that any sourness is just Vit C in solution and so is beneficial but of course you'll get much more Vit C in your bloodstream if it's in lipospheres and it maybe be difficult to keep your dosing consistent if you don't know if the encapsulation is consistent from batch to batch. I don't know how much that matters. I don't think the DIY stuff is a waste of time - I think it's just that it's only partially encapsulated and probably a lot better than nothing. I wonder if someone on the net has managed to test it - there are some skilled people out there!

    Good to know about the sunflower lecithin! I think I'll give the LivOn stuff a proper trial and if I want to keep using lipo C in the very long run, will think about DIY.
     
    sueami likes this.
  13. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

    Messages:
    8,724
    Likes:
    7,997
    UK
    In breaking news, I've just been lying down for the last three hours with what didn't quite develop into a sinus headache but was trying to! I felt really ill.

    A few hours earlier I took 3g Vit C powder to start to try to titrate up to determine my current bowel tolerance dose. No idea if that helped bring some symptoms on.
     
  14. natasa778

    natasa778 Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,486
    Likes:
    1,351
    London UK
    :(
     
    Sasha likes this.
  15. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

    Messages:
    8,724
    Likes:
    7,997
    UK
    Feeling much better now - I got off lightly in the headache department if not in the 'feeling rubbish' department, for which I'm deeply grateful... :ill:

    I suspect I'm still at a low dose compared with where I need to be.
     
    natasa778 likes this.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page