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High dose magnesium CAUSING migraine/headaches

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by bertiedog, Feb 23, 2016.

  1. bertiedog

    bertiedog Senior Member

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    I am hoping that I might have found an answer to my almost daily migraines and/or headaches. Because of everything I have read, especially from Dr Myhill, I have upped my magnesium to around 1000 mg daily taken as mainly citrate but also a good amount of malic acid too.

    Only today I decided to do a Google search, "Is Magnesium a Vasodilator"? I know that vasodilators give me migraine because of the many herbs I have tried in the past and it's only vasoconstrictors like Sumatriptan and caffeine that help me get rid of them but it doesn't always work. I also get extremely severe neck muscle pain that comes out of the blue.

    There was several references to the fact that magnesium probably works by increasing vasodilation in the vascular system. I couldn't believe it and don't know why I have never checked this before as my migraines have got worse and worse and I have upped my magnesium over the years taking a good dose with each meal.

    I also wonder if this could be the cause of what I describe as a "fluidy tightness" I feel in my legs from time to time. It will be interesting to see if these symptoms improve but I have to say I do feel annoyed that there is never a mention of this vasodilating effect of magnesium becomes it comes so highly recommended by practically every alternative/integrative doctor.

    Pam
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2016
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  2. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    @bertiedog - I hope you have found the answer to your migraines and headaches! Yes, Sarah Myhill is a strong proponent of magnesium for CFS/ME. However, the 1000 mg. you're taking is a very high dose and I don't see where she recommends that high of dose. On her website she says the RDA is 300 mg. for men and 350 for women.

    However, I agree, it's unfortunate that she does not mention the vasodilating effect of magnesium, and that it is not well-known in general. There is so much we have to learn on our own - no one seems to know it all. I've discovered things on my own through trial and error, or happening across some obscure paper - I keep thinking we are going to be so well-educated (through trial by fire) and once a cure is found (for I keep thinking it will be), we can use our hard-won knowledge to make a difference.
     
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  3. bertiedog

    bertiedog Senior Member

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    @Mary I did just check my daily total and on many days it would have been more like 600 mg which I realise is still quite high but it's this vasodilation thing that is very annoying.

    It's probably been around 12 years that I have been raising my dose with migraine getting out of control. It never occurred to me that it was harmful.
     
  4. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    That's a very long time to be dealing with migraines and I get how you feel about it. I'd feel the same. You know, I think it would be a good idea if you e-mailed Dr. Myhill and told her about this. I'm assuming she doesn't know about it or doesn't think it's an issue and hopefully she will be glad to have it brought to her attention.

    I tried Richvank's methylation protocol off and on for 3-1/2 years (2007-2010). Each time I felt like crap and had to stop it, but kept retrying as soon as I felt well enough, because it was the only thing I knew of to try, at that time, it was the only game in town for me. And then I stumbled across Freddd's B12 protocol and never felt sick on it like I did with Rich's, apart from the issue of low potassium, which Freddd explained and I was thus able to deal with. Rich never mentioned the issue of low potassium when supplementing with B12 and folate, until late in the game when he read some of what Freddd had written.

    In retrospect, I think part of my horrible reaction to Rich's protocol was probably low potassium, only I didn't know it, he never mentioned it until quite a bit later. (I also think I reacted badly to something in the particular supplements he recommended)

    So it's a little similar to your experience, though it did not go on for 12 years! It's good you're bringing this to people's attention now. We are all guinea pigs here, unfortunately. Anyways, I hope lowering your dose will help with the migraines. Keep us posted how you do!
     
  5. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Senior Member

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    I didn't get migraines from high dose magnesium, but it did cause me to sleep around the clock. I had to stop taking it and have yet to try a lower dose to see if it helps with my sleep at night without causing daytime sleep.
     
  6. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    Thanks @bertiedog ;

    Vasodilation is one of the reasons I can't tolerate Magnesium anymore, unfortunately.

    Nitric oxide is one of the strongest vasodilators, causing my worst migraines.

    Normally, vasodilators would be fine and good for folks.
     
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  7. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

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    Magnesium is a nightmare for me. It crashes my BP, I can hardly move my limbs and it makes me sleep excessively.
     
  8. bertiedog

    bertiedog Senior Member

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    I did read today about magnesium crashing some people's bp and also making some very sleepy.

    One other thing I have noticed is that my symptoms vary hugely throughout the day, I would describe it as having no stability. I couldn't understand it but now I wonder if it is because on most days I would have been taking magnesium with most meals so that's 3 times daily and if it is causing this vasodilation that might be why. Will just have to wait and see.

    It's very frustrating because at times I can feel very well but then it can change pretty quickly especially when the pain starts building in my head and also my muscles would be dreadful with huge knots especially in my shoulders. They would feel like golf balls. It would be amazing if this excess magnesium might have been causing this too but maybe that is too much to hope for!

    Pam
     
  9. bertiedog

    bertiedog Senior Member

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    Do any of you knowledgeable people have any idea as to how long it might be for my blood levels to drop? I will continue with the 3 Basic Nutrients Multi that I take which will give me just 143 mg magnesium citrate and might continue with one magnesium malate which is 75 mg.

    Thanks

    Pam
     
  10. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    Balance the magnesium with calcium in a 1:1 ratio and the problem might go away. Don't go over 500mg of each. Spread out the dose over the day, eg I usually take 150mg of each 3x daily.
     
  11. bertiedog

    bertiedog Senior Member

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    I have some calcium in my multi and I eat a lot of dairy which suits me fine so I don't want to take anymore calcium. Today I have only had the mildest of a headache, nothing there on waking which is unusual so it's looking promising already.

    Pam
     
  12. Oci

    Oci Senior Member

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    Interesting thread. Thanks! I am struggling with migraine...and tight neck/shoulder muscles too and was taking a lot of Magnesium Glycinate. I just cut back on it a couple of days ago.
     
  13. bertiedog

    bertiedog Senior Member

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    It was Dr Myhill who started me off with magnesium injections and then nebulizing it (might have been the other way round) that was in 2007 and the migraines have over the years become almost permanent. I had switched to oral forms from about 2011. I have the book The Magnesium Miracle by Caroline Dean but I don't know if she mentions this vasodilating effect, I will have to try and find it but I did read her saying that if you were still having symptoms then you probably need more!!

    Pam
     
  14. Oci

    Oci Senior Member

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    Pam: What form of magnesium have you been taking? I was just reading some reports on my snps and found that I have a problem with glycine metabolism. And I have been taking 2 + 2 tablets of magnesium glycinate daily for some time now.
    Snp video (MTHFR support) said about the AMT gene...
    "This can become an autosomal recessive disease characterized by accumulation of a large amount of glycine in the body fluid and by severe neurological symptoms"
    Apparently this also pertains to serine and threonine. I often take magnesium threonate instead of the glycinate. Urrrggghhh.
    Now, what magnesium can I take? Citrate quickly gives me loose stools.
     
  15. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Senior Member

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    I have a friend who discovered when she totally cut dairy from her diet that dairy was the CAUSE of her migraine headaches. She hasn't had a migraine since.
     
  16. bertiedog

    bertiedog Senior Member

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    @TigerLilea No it's not like that with me, I have gone dairy free in the past with no gains.
    Pam
     
  17. bertiedog

    bertiedog Senior Member

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    For the most part it's been citrate form and yes I did get loose stools sometimes but not others and also about 150 mg of the total was magnesium malate.

    Pam
     
  18. Oci

    Oci Senior Member

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    Thanks for the reminder. I avoid all cow dairy but have some goat. It is an allergy to casein and apparently there are types one and two. I'd be better to cut out both completely but I do love some cheese.
    I also find and have read anecdotal reports that cutting out gluten greatly decreases migraine.
    I also have a problem with my neck on one side and am finding that Pilates is greatly irritating and provoking migraine. No more Pilates classes for me although I may do some on my own with the DVD. I know which exercises to avoid.
     
  19. Oci

    Oci Senior Member

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    I'm wondering just what form of magnesium would be good for me. Glycinate, serine and threonine are contraindicated with the AMT gene that I have. How do I know that malate would be good? There are so many snps both tested by 23andm3 and not tested that it is impossible to know what might suit. More and more I am believing in the forms that Mother Nature is providing in food. I just need to know now what foods to increase my magnesium levels. COMT++ needs more than usual amount of Mg.
     
  20. bertiedog

    bertiedog Senior Member

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    @I am also COMT ++ but I am not sure that these SNPs always affect us in a negative way. As far as I know glycinate is considered a good absorbable form of magnesium. The reason I choose to take some malate is that it is supposed to be good for muscles which I have big problems with.

    The only way is to try it at a low dose and see how you feel.

    Pam
     

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