Invest in ME Conference 12: First Class in Every Way
OverTheHills wraps up our series of articles on this year's 12th Invest in ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London with some reflections on her experience as a patient attending the conference for the first time.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

high cortisol at night???

Discussion in 'Sleep' started by A zombie, Dec 23, 2014.

  1. A zombie

    A zombie

    Messages:
    197
    Likes:
    29
    what are ppl taking for sleep that have high cortisol at night?
    i'm thinking its high!a ew nights ago i fell asleep for like two hours and then woke two hours later with a pounding heart and couldn't get bk to sleep without loraz :(
    i did a saliva test but i was only off HC for like 5-7 days so my results are all high... it says i'm high all day, which i don't believe as when i was off the HC for those days i felt like i wanted to DIE. And now that i'm bk on it i feel really good. So i don't believe i'm high all day.... i've never been on any saliva test.Anywho, i try to take PS at night and it doesn't help.
    Any suggestions for whats helping ppl sleep?
    I can't take 5 http as i have high serotonin and it give me brain zaps. Gabs didn't really help either, even though i'm LOW gabs on NT testing...
    i also have lyme, hashimotos disease.... mother, CBS, COMT and a bunch of other lovely mutations....
     
    August59 likes this.
  2. halcyon

    halcyon Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,269
    Likes:
    5,313
    There is evidence that PS derived from soy does not have any effect on cortisol levels. Apparently experiments that did show an effect were using PS derived from bovine cortex which isn't widely available due to the fear of Creutzfeldt–Jakob disease.
     
  3. A zombie

    A zombie

    Messages:
    197
    Likes:
    29
    so what helps???
     
  4. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,650
    Likes:
    5,888
    Southern California
    Seriphos (phosphorylated serine) is very effective for normalizing cortisol levels, but you have to take it in the morning. My cortisol was very high at night several years ago causing severe insomnia and I started taking Seriphos and it helped almost immediately. It was trial and error to get the correct dose, but I ended up taking 8 capsules in divided doses in the morning on an empty stomach (4 capsules first thing before breakfast and 4 mid-morning). After some months I noticed I was getting extra tired and realized my cortisol was going too low and cut back. I now take 2 a day as a maintenance dose. A good place to buy it which has the best price and free fast shipping is professionalsupplementcenter.com

    And again, it's important to take it in the morning. It doesn't make you tired during the day but it did calm me down. I think halcyon is referring to phosphatidyl serine (PS), not phosphorylated serine.

    Also, you might try niacin at night. It sensitizes or activates the GABA receptors - it really helped me a lot with sleep. I found I had to take the kind that makes you flush - non-flush niacin and niacinamide did nothing to help with sleep. And don't get long-acting niacin, that's the kind that is associated with liver damage. I've learned to live with the flush and actually it's much less than when I first started taking it (and often I don't flush at all any more). I take 500 mg. with dinner and then in the middle of the night I take an additional 300 mg. of niacin.

    Also, you might try l-theanine instead of GABA. The brain makes GABA from l-theanine and l-theanine crosses the blood-brain barrier better than GABA.

    Some amino acids I've recently started taking which also help with sleep are glycine and inositol. You can buy glycine capsules but another way to get it is to take plain gelatin which is very high in glycine. When I first took both of these supplements (separately) I had a rather strong detox reaction. They are both involved in Phase II liver detoxification. For some reason though I can tolerate them now with nor problem but I would would try one at a time to see how you react. I think most people could probably take them with no problem. And I've also read that choline and inositol together help with sleep. I already take lecithin for memory so have not added in choline.

    And of course make sure you are taking enough magnesium, very important for sleep. You can take it up to bowel tolerance.
     
  5. A zombie

    A zombie

    Messages:
    197
    Likes:
    29
    i'm taking HC in the AM and noon, should i still take PS in the morning?i was taking L -theanine too and it seems to help for while but then stopped. I just muscle tested it at chiro and she said it wasn't working for me, so i stopped it completely.
    I have niacin, i certain can try that!
    I also take a lot of mag due to muscle twitching from lyme.I was taking a LOT of glycinate the last few weeks and having massive diarrhea, didn't realize it was the glycinate, but i also think it was helping me rest better at night...so i feel i'm damend if i do and damned if i don't (having Diarrhea or getting some rest)
    I also have phostphatidylacholine, a dr told me to take it for one of the mutations....
     
  6. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,650
    Likes:
    5,888
    Southern California
    What is HC? I read and experienced for myself that Seriphos works much better when taken in the morning due to circadian rhythms. I can't give you the chemistry of why it is this way, but the one time I tried it at night I had a horrible reaction - it was bizarre, and no bad reaction at all when taken in the morning. And it did have a calming, but not sedating, effect during the day. I just felt better able to deal with things.

    So I don't know what HC is, but assume it would not change the need to take Seriphos in the morning.
    Here's some iherb.com reviews about Seriphos:
    http://www.iherb.com/product-review...phosphorylated-serine-100-capsules/31262/?p=1

    Here is a link which discusses magnesium (which someone posted for me) and it references a magnesium product which is not supposed to cause diarrhea: http://drcarolyndean.com/2012/10/when-magnesium-makes-me-worse/
    I have never tried this product so don't know if it will help or not.
    And here's another article all about magnesium and its various forms:
    http://george-eby-research.com/html/depression-anxiety.html#toxicology

    So you may find something useful in there. It would be good if you were able to take magnesium without too many problems.

    It's possible that niacin may make the l-theanine more effective. I think it did for me. And again I take it (niacin) with dinner and in the middle of the night (as well as the amino acids I talked about above - they all help)

    I don't think phosphatidylcholine is a substitute for phosphorylated serine (Seriphos). I read about the difference once, and there is a difference but can't remember what it was.
     
  7. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

    Messages:
    8,831
    Likes:
    8,095
    australia (brisbane)
    The dose supposedly required of ps are in the 500 to 800mg range. Most products sold are 100mg per pill and some contain phos choline which can be stimulating. Suppose to work by increase the sensitivity to cortisol, as sensitivity improves cortisol suppose to come down.

    I think it can effect cortisol throughout the day lowering cortisol too much for some.
     
  8. A zombie

    A zombie

    Messages:
    197
    Likes:
    29
    sorry, HC = hydrocortisone. To help with low cortisol!
    I take a product called seriphos.
    I take mag malate too, but i'm finding the high doses of glycinate are making me more restful?!?
     
  9. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,214
    Likes:
    696
    After spending thousands of dollars on supplements and doing a ton of research and consulting with the guy from selfhacked.com, and experimenting, I still haven't tried everything, but I have found the following to work:

    As other's have mentioned Seriphos works to calm the HPA-axis down.

    #1. Magnesium calm (google it) 6 grams (500 mg magnesium)
    #2 Glycine (2-4 grams at night)
    #3 Aswaganda (still experimenting)
    #4 Seriphos
    #5 Rhodiola
     
    xptriado likes this.
  10. picante

    picante Senior Member

    Messages:
    763
    Likes:
    875
    Helena, MT USA
    I take Seriphos in the middle of the night (just one or two), but only on the nights when I'm awake around 3-5 am. It usually works for me.
    I also take it when I get that weird post-exertion sense of being up in the ozone. Sometimes it takes 4-6 capsules to bring me back to the ground.
     
  11. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

    Messages:
    8,831
    Likes:
    8,095
    australia (brisbane)
    I bought phos serine in a bulk powder and capsule them myself. Much cheaper than buying ps already in caps. My caps are approx 500mg each. I use them when my sleep cycle goes funky. If I use them to much I feel sluggish the next day, Guessing it's low cortisol.

    I do like tryptophan for sleep in doses of 3000 to 4000mg. I need to buy it in bulk powder form too.
     
  12. A zombie

    A zombie

    Messages:
    197
    Likes:
    29
    ok, so i took the PS around 3pm yesterday (3) and then bedtime 2 or 3....i woke several times before 2 am. And had to dose every time i woke, i think at one point i took 4, that sailed me to 2a. then woke at 5am( it think there were more times inbwtween i just refused to look at my phone) then at 5a i took like 4 and couldn't get bk to sleep, had to take zanx.
    Last night was friggin awful. I felt i really only got 2-3 hours of sleep..and must have taken 15 or so PS....
    maybe 5a is when my cortisol starts to go LOW???
    All i know is last night was a nightmare....
    I"ve been on PS before and it's worked , maybe it's just going to take time to stabilize. Well now i'm actually out of it, need to order more. Hoping i can get some more rest taught. I did have a very extensive and involved dream , so that was awesome, haven't had that in a long time. but i also take LDN which can make your drream intense.
    any thoughts on last night???
     
  13. A zombie

    A zombie

    Messages:
    197
    Likes:
    29
    i've tried mag calm, gives me diarrhea... the amount of mag i need is a lot. Like over 1000 mgs.
    yesterday i did over 800 mg of malate during the day and 400 msg of glycinate at bedtime....i at least didn't twitch.
    I might order rhodiolla... it's in on of my adrenal sups i take during the day. And i will order more ashwagangha.
    will look into glycine.
    thanks everyone!!!!!
    i'd rather live on loraz than deal with what i did last night :(
     
  14. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,650
    Likes:
    5,888
    Southern California
    Try taking the Seriphos in the morning only - none at night. The time of day you take it can make a HUGE difference. When I took it later in the day and at night, I slept horribly. There's research showing it works best when taken in the morning.
     
  15. A zombie

    A zombie

    Messages:
    197
    Likes:
    29
    i'm confused on rhodiola, as it looks like lit could be stimulating?!?!?
     
  16. A zombie

    A zombie

    Messages:
    197
    Likes:
    29
    OK, i ran out but i have a few caps of pr cortisol balance which has PS and PC in it, but at much lower doses that the seriphos....
     
  17. A zombie

    A zombie

    Messages:
    197
    Likes:
    29
  18. picante

    picante Senior Member

    Messages:
    763
    Likes:
    875
    Helena, MT USA
    Was this Seriphos (phosphorylated serine) or phosphatidyl serine?
     
  19. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,650
    Likes:
    5,888
    Southern California
    I just looked up Pro Cortisol balance: http://www.myhealth-store.com/w-350...ts&kw=w-3502&gclid=CJX9s8em38ICFUZbfgod5moA9A

    It has phosphatidyl serine, not phosphorylated serine. It's very confusing as people seem to use the term "PS" interchangeably, and they are not the same things.

    In my experience, Seriphos - phosphorylated serine - works much better than phosphatidyl serine - and Seriphos - phosphorylated serine - should be taken in the morning on an empty stomach. The timing is extremely important - when taken at night it can cause insomnia.
     
  20. A zombie

    A zombie

    Messages:
    197
    Likes:
    29
    oh no, i took PS last night, procortisol is what i have on hand now.
    I wont have the PS - seriphos for several days :( but i will try in the AM.
     

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page