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HIGH BLOOD SUGAR

Discussion in 'General Symptoms' started by Jimbo39, Nov 29, 2016.

  1. Jimbo39

    Jimbo39 Senior Member

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    Could someone point me to any doctors or authors who are knowledgeable about high blood sugar/insulin resistance/pre-diabetes? Thanks
     
    Mel9 likes this.
  2. Lynn

    Lynn Senior Member

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    Hi Jimbo,

    In my physical for the past few years my fasting blood glucose was hovering around 99 (pre-diabetes). In November it jumped to 146. That scared me a lot. I don't want to manage diabetes as well as ME/CFS. I thought I had a pretty healthy diet with the Perfect Health Diet. But based on results, it obviously wasn't working.

    Although I don't have a doctor to recommend, I did a lot of research on the internet to figure out what I needed to do to get the sugar in check. I came across this site which I liked: https://www.dietdoctor.com/reverse-type-2-diabetes-quick-start-guide.

    I have been doing the low-carb diet for about a month now. Mostly I just cut out things like potatoes and rice. It had an immediate impact. My fasting blood sugar has been ranging between 85 and 110. That is still not great but at least it's not in the diabetic territory.

    I think we have blood sugar challenges because of the lack of exercise. i still don't know what to do about that.

    I hope this helps you a bit.

    Lynn
     
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  3. Richard7

    Richard7 Senior Member

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    Hi @Jimbo39 I became quite concerned about this about 6 months ago.

    But as I understand it there are two problems with current ideas about pre-diabetes.

    1) if you are basing your concern on a fasting insulin or glucose level, I wouldn't say ignore it but you should probably get the glucose tolerance test. The one where you take 75g glucose and have your blood drawn at three times over the next two hours.

    I saw a presentation by this pharmacist and phd student https://pharmacistcatherine.net/ in which she explained that one of the problems with all hormones is that they are released in pulses. It turns out that recent research in Japan, Canada and New Zealand has shown that these pulses are 2-6 minutes apart and that any single reading has a huge uncertainty about it. She also explained that normal everyday stresses like traffic on the way to the pathology lab can have a huge impact on single readings.

    2) If you look at her website you can look at the Kraft patterns there. A normal person has a large increase in blood glucose and insulin during a glucose tolerance test.

    I know that my test back in 2013 follows none of these patterns because the glucose is essentially flat. I understand from a personal communication with someone in the University of Melbourne research group that this is the standard CFS pattern. We tend to have slightly higher glucose all the time but have a flat or near flat response curve in the glucose tolerance test.

    I do not know but suspect that this is to do with Julia newton's findings on glucose utilisation in muscle cells cultured from CFS patients. In healthy people about half of all the glucose that is absorbed by cells is absorbed under the influence of insulin. In Newton's experiments the CFS patients muscle cells absorbed glucose under the influence of insulin, but not under the influence of exercise they were also more insulin sensitive.

    My guess is that our insulin levels have to go up high in the glucose tolerance test because it is the only mechanism we have for absorbing the glucose (so it is for us effectively a 150g glucose test instead of a 75g test) and that the glucose stays pretty level because we are insulin sensitive, but it is a guess and I really do not know.

    if you do have diabetes I found these lectures interesting https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/category/lectures/the-aetiology-of-obesity-lecture-series/ note that he has links to the slides and notes for these lectures and tonnes of blog posts and two books for those who prefer to read
     
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  4. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I highly recommend you to watch this video about the insulin assay.

    If you are already on a low carb diet, there is something called "physiological insulin resistance" that will make your blood sugar go up, not because of high ingestion of carbs, but due to endogenous liver production (which is expected).
    http://caloriesproper.com/ketoadaptation-and-physiological-insulin-resistance/
    http://ketopia.com/tag/physiological-insulin-resistance/
    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/does-eating-low-carb-cause-insulin-resistance/

    However, a very low carb diet isn't for everyone or forever, and the ideal would be to have dr following savy on this issues.
    http://lowcarbmag.com/list-of-low-carb-and-paleo-doctors-and-practitioners-in-usa/
    You can google paleo low carb diet and the name of your town or a locality close to you.
     
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  5. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I must add that before getting an insulin assay, the patient must eat high carb for 3 days prior to the test, because otherwise the physiological insulin resistance will mask the results.
     
  6. Lynn

    Lynn Senior Member

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    I forgot to mention the intermittent fasting that I am doing as well. For the last month, I have been doing 16 hours of fasting two-three times per week and 24 hour fasting twice each week. 24 hours is not that hard. I just don't eat between dinner one night and the next. Voila a twenty four hour fast. I

    believe this is normalizing my sugar as well.
     
  7. bertiedog

    bertiedog Senior Member

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    Read Dr Bernstein's website and/or read his books. Also Blood Sugar 101 book and website are very helpful too.

    Good luck
    Pam
     
  8. Jimbo39

    Jimbo39 Senior Member

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    Yes, I'm half Japanese and have a hard time letting go of rice.

    I know. For those of us with PEM it's hard. I try to take short walks but don't know if it helps.
     
  9. Lynn

    Lynn Senior Member

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    I understand completely. We have just started making cauliflower rice. It actually works fairly well as a rice substitute under things with a sauce. Not that great on its own though, IMO. Costco sells it already riced in the produce section. Saves the preparation energy.
     
  10. Jimbo39

    Jimbo39 Senior Member

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    So exercise is a way for normal people to absorb glucose but not those with CFS? I wonder why this is? What does it mean to be insulin sensitive?

    Our glucose levels stay level because we don't have the mechanism that normal people have to utilize glucose?
     
  11. Jimbo39

    Jimbo39 Senior Member

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    Thanks for all the links. Fascinating reading! I'm not scientific so there was much I didn't understand. I can see where a low carb diet would promote more glucose production. From what I could grasp it seems to be a mechanism to supply the brain with needed glucose. It appears the same is true with insulin resistance (the cells quit taking in glucose so the brain can get it). I'm guessing when the brain has enough, the cells become insulin sensitive again?

    I'm not sure how this knowledge would apply for those of us who are pre-diabetic. Is the key to supply or "retrain" our brains into using keytones? Hence a paleo diet with good fats like flaxseed and butter?
     
  12. Jimbo39

    Jimbo39 Senior Member

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    I noticed Dr Fung recommends this. That seems to be a lot of fasting. Do you feel you're getting the necessary nutrients? I do feel our western "three square meals a day" mentality is a bit much.
     
  13. Jimbo39

    Jimbo39 Senior Member

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    Thank you Pam. Do you have an issue with this? What has helped you?
     
  14. bertiedog

    bertiedog Senior Member

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    @Jimbo39 I have had to cut my carbs right down because I am steroid dependent and this can make on a little insulin resistant. My fasting blood sugar is fine but they tend to run around 6 during the day which my Endo says is normal but from what I have read one wouldn't want them any higher.

    I only eat half a piece of gluten free toast a day and half a no sugar oatcake as part of a small snack in the evening by way of grains and no rice, pasta or potatoes. My diet consists of lots of nuts, cheese, yoghurt, lots of vegetables plus meat or fish and this seems to work quite well and haven't craved carbs for many years. I also enjoy it.

    Pam
     
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  15. Jimbo39

    Jimbo39 Senior Member

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    @Gondwanaland Do you feel a lot of people with CFS struggle with this problem? Do you think adrenal fatigue, hypothyroidism, inflammation, methylation problems contribute to it? I also have high BP and cholesterol. Are these contributing factors or maybe the result of glucose/insulin related problems? Sigh, this condition can be pretty overwhelming and depressing.
     
  16. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I think that processed foods ruined our metabolism and excess abx prescription ruined our guts. I for once have been prescribed (and taken) more abx than it was really needed. Not to mention OTC anti-inflammatories, anti-acids etc all needed due to poor nutrition.

    I believe that hyperinsulinemia might be the root of too many illnesses. BUT a LCHF or Paleo diets aren't the only way to fix the issues for everyone.
     
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  17. Richard7

    Richard7 Senior Member

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    @Jimbo39

    Type 2 diabetes is insulin resistance. You need much more insulin to pump the same amount of glucose into a cell. If you are insulin sensitive, as Julia Newton found pwcfs/me were, you need less insulin to pump the same amount of glucose into your cells.

    You can read Fung, but one of the methods for creating diabetes he mentions is having lots and lots of glucose all the time. When a healthy person does this their insulin level goes up and the glucose gets pushed into their cells. But the cells then get too much glucose and become less sensitive to insulin. which means you need much more insulin to put the glucose into the cells. If you keep having a lot of glucose, the insulin levels keep going up and the insulin resistance does too. But it is really complex and Fung takes several long videos to explain it.

    The idea behind intemittent fasting (for type two diabetes) is that insulin is spiked by food. There is a thing called an insulin index. It is determined by feeding foods to groups of people and seeing how high their insulin levels go. People have worked out models to predict insulin indexes but the relevant thing here is that food triggers an increase in insulin.

    If you graze throughout the day your insulin level stays up all day. If you fast for say 16hrs eat between 12noon and 8pm and fast from 8pm to 12noon the next day, which is the simplest form of intemittent fasting your insulin levels are lower for longer. Fung uses fasting of this type and for longer periods for type 2 diabetics to reduce their levels of insulin so that cells start to need more glucose than is being forced on them and they gradually become more sensitive to insulin.

    But your best off reading his explanations he is a doctor: I am not.

    But the real question is are you prediabetic. If you have just done a fasting insulin that is not really enough evidence. You would have to do the two hour glucose tolerance test to be sure. (And even then it is not 100%)

    I do intermittent fast and find it beneficial, but am not prediabetic and do not really know which of the many things that happen when you fast are benefitting me. It may just be giving digestion a rest.

    Re Rice: If you are looking at going lower carb you could try this technique for increasing the level of RS in the rice https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2015-03/acs-nlr021915.php
    But I would suggest combining it with intemittent fasting, and a lot of fibre rich vegetables.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2016
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  18. Jimbo39

    Jimbo39 Senior Member

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    When I was in my teens my doc prescribed abx for ache. I was on it for over a year. Since then I've struggled with gut and depression problems.



    In addition to the Paleo diet, what has helped you?
     
  19. Jimbo39

    Jimbo39 Senior Member

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    Isn't this a good thing?

    I think I understand this now. So too much glucose in your cells causes your cells to become less sensitive (more resistant?) to insulin which causes the pancreas to pump more insulin? Is it excess insulin that causes cardiovascular damage? I will watch Dr Fung's videos.

    Thanks for your link on making rice into RS. I'll try it.
     
  20. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    The Paleo diet helped me very little actually. After 3 months on it I still was deficient in B12. Presently I am not restricting legumes or carbs since I am underweight. The most beneficial supplement I took was P5P, but only tolerated it for 2 weeks. It caused me hyperthyroidism and then hypothyroidism.
     

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