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Herbs that interact with methylation

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by Martial, Mar 16, 2014.

  1. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    Ventura, CA
    Hey guys, I know I made a lot of posts lately but feel its good to know certain info or to show some interesting treatments I always find!

    Anyways I wanted to make this post to focus on Fred's Methylation protocol and any possible unknown methylation blockers.

    The traditional ones I have known of have consisted of Whey, Nac, Folic Acid, Folinic acid, and glutathione supplements.. Also too much vegetable consumption can supposedly block folate supplements so if someone was eating a bunch of veggies It is important to raise the level of folate supplementation as well.

    Another one I heard of but never knew much about is possible interference with different herbal supplements.

    I do not know about others but for myself I take a very protocoled approach with specific herbs in treatment of my own lyme issues alongside the methylation treatment. I originally just stopped all other supplements except basic multi vitamins so I wouldn't cause any trapping, however this specific herbal treatment is what I am using to treat my lyme disease and is working phenomenally! And without the added toxic burden of excessive anti biotics, and yes this also means herbal anti biotics.

    I won't go into too much details here but the protocol was created by Dr. Jernigan and the idea is to treat the body to clearing out the infection itself... Using certain herbs to target the bacteria and support the immune system, rather then only focus on kill the infection alone.. Which never works.

    Now my only conundrum is trying to figure out if this herbal protocol and the methylation protocol are causing some kind of adverse effects or issues with each other... I guess I could always watch for symptoms but its hard because paradox folate deficency and methyl trapping symptoms are exactly the same as what I experience with herxing, and general lyme symptoms.

    I don't think the herbs could cause an outright methyl block on their own but I can never know for sure either.. I just wish there was some kind of test we could take or something to know exactly what is going on rather then going off symptoms alone! lol

    Anyways appreciate any input or thoughts from someone doing similar?
    leela and helen1 like this.
  2. Radio

    Radio *****

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    I have actually research this before, this is a great topic. If you are trying to reduce inflammation with out affecting methylation, we need to ask the right questions.


    What Herbs are methylation inhibitors?


    Also,

    What Herbs inhibit mitochondria function?


    I know that turmeric is a Mao-A inhibitor, supplementing with this herb can be a bad thing if you have the Mao-A +/+ mutation. I came to the conclusion that green tea extract was the best anti-inflammatory with the lease cross inhibition potential.



    Turmeric is a potent MAO-A inhibitor

    http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20100425/msgs/945178.html
    Monoamine oxidase A
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoamine_oxidase_A
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2014
    Hanna likes this.
  3. Aerose91

    Aerose91 Senior Member

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    I'm noticing that any methylation makes me MUCH worse. I started increasing my HCL dose before meals about 2 weeks ago and I still haven't recovered. Sleep got way, way worse and my brain function did as well- increased psychosis. I don't seem to.be rebounding from this- did I over methylate?
  4. Radio

    Radio *****

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    Radio: (Warning COM +/+ mutation), HCL Betaine is a methyl donor.
  5. tdog333

    tdog333 Senior Member

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    Niacin of course will soak up your methyl groups.
    Lithium Orotate can help people with COMT and MTR/MTRR probably. It makes b12 transport more efficient and helps break down epinephrine i think.
    Caffeine and alcohol will deplete b levels


    Don't overdo green tea or soy:

    http://nutrition.highwire.org/content/137/1/223S.full

    Radio likes this.
  6. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    @Aerose91

    Methylation protocol needs to have specific set points on certain aspects of certain vitamins like folate to make progress, if a person does it incorrectly they will get worse or induce paradoxical deficiency, or low potassium if not aware of that. Be sure to stick to a solid protocol like Fred's and follow the instructions to the Tee if you so choose to use it!

    @Radio

    Great post on Turmeric!
    very informative, interesting to see how it has similar relief benifets to things like prozac minus the major side effects. Also interesting to know genetic mutation issues it causes!

    @tdog333

    Good post man I think this is important to consider as well...

    I used pretty high dose of green tea extract to help with lyme disease, however some people can even suffer liver damage from too high of doses if it is not processed well.. Over all its a very quality herb, just need to be aware of people's own sensitivities!

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/22/us/spike-in-harm-to-liver-is-tied-to-dietary-aids.html?_r=0
    Radio likes this.
  7. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    As an update I have noticed some contradictory reactions and other herbs that seem to complement methylation de tox quite well.

    Eleuthero root taken in high doses seems to possibly interact with methyl supplements and cause some issues. Also known as Siberian ginseng I think the issue stems from functioning too much as a stimulant and causing way too much sympathetic system activity when combined with methylation. I have not taken it long enough or in doses very extreme to state for 100% but it seems to be causing some kinds of issues.

    Japanese knotweed is very CNS protective and a powerful anti oxidant and free radical scavenger, alongside methylation support and the resulting de tox from toxins this works quite well. It is also a cytokine activity suppressor. Very useful in controlling the growth of certain pathogens and preventing body tissue/collagen damage. Siberian Ginseng is also a potent neuro protective but it still seems too stimulating at this time. Knotweed has no known interaction with methylation.

    Lions Mane mushroom is very good at healing the nervous system and in support of new neurons, neural growth, and general healing of the CNS system, a definite necessity for anyone dealing with nerve issues from infection, trauma, accident, etc. no known interaction with methylation.

    Chinese Skullcap is very helpful in shutting cytokine activity in different receptors the knotweed though I do not re call the receptors they both function on, very useful for lyme and co infections, alongside mycoplasma, and parasitic infection. Also certain viral infections. no known interaction with methylation.

    Banderol has been a great anti microbial agent and has helped to bring down the load of pathogens without known interactions with methylation.

    Cats claw/samento is a very potent immune system modulator, anti bacterial, anti parastic, anti fungal, and anti inflammatory. I noticed tendonitis on it so have switched it for ashwaganda, teasal, rhodiala combo. No known interaction with methylation.

    Olive leaf extract/ Olive Oil. Extremely powerful anti spectrum for all pathogens, boosting immune system very well, helps restore healthy gut flora, and supports healthy fatty acid ratios. No known interaction with methylation though start in low doses, the herxing and de toxing here can be intense.

    Will update with more herbs as I continue on, would be interested in anyone that has used adrenal support herbs like ashwaganda, rhodiala, holy basil, etc. Alongside methylation and noticed any interactions. I am on these for now but not long enough to make comments.


    This thread is intended to find ideal herbs that help to clear underlying infections without any adverse reactions or interference with methylation support protocols.
    juniemarie, Little Bluestem and Radio like this.

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