Invest in ME Conference 12: First Class in Every Way
OverTheHills wraps up our series of articles on this year's 12th Invest in ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London with some reflections on her experience as a patient attending the conference for the first time.
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Hematologic & Urinary Excretion Anomalies in CFS

Discussion in 'Latest ME/CFS Research' started by merylg, Jul 22, 2012.

  1. merylg

    merylg Senior Member

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    Sydney, NSW, Australia
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  2. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

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    Very interesting thanks merylg - it's good to see this one having experienced peculiar changes in odour and colour when at the severe stage.
     
  3. mellster

    mellster Marco

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    ?? I had to get up 4+ times at night when I was sick and my nighty urinary output was monstrous (it started normalizing when I started healing), which goes well with the explanation of diabetes insipidus as a common CFS symptom - so I don't know what they are talking about here, seems counter-intuitive :)
     
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  4. Patrick*

    Patrick* Formerly PWCalvin

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    This doesn't surprise me because I noticed changes in my urine right away when I got ME. (I suspect this is easier for men to notice). My urine started producing much more foam than usual (still does) and occasionally appears slightly cloudy.

    It concerned me to the point where I visited a nephrologist, who ordered a 24 hour urine collection test. The results of the test where supposedly "normal," but it didn't test for any of the factors mentioned in the article above.
     
  5. Sherlock

    Sherlock tart cherry etc. for joints, insomnia

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    Czechosherlockia, USA
    here's the FFT: http://ebm.rsmjournals.com/content/232/8/1041.long

    but finding less urine output in CFS seems ludicrous, at least from my experience

    btw, nocturia/polyuria IIRC can be caused by increased interferon and also increased histamine in the bladder (and diphenhydramine would usually lessen polyuria for me)


    also, this study finds somewhat increased neutrophils as the major immunological finding, yet this later review (2009) doesn't even mention neuts in the abstract:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18801465
    Immunological aspects of chronic fatigue syndrome.
     
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  6. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    I have days where I have very little output. I drink A LOT if I need to be on my feet doing things (to counteract the POTS.. I drink up to a glass every 15mins). but due to the ME.. sometimes I loose all sense of thirst and hunger and at such times when I dont have to leave the house, I may not be drinking much at all and hence have very little urine output.

    At times when taking a 24 hr sample.. one time I even had only 600ml urine output (just over 2 cups)for the 24hrs.. another time.. I only had 800ml output in 24 hrs. This would of been due to loosing my ability to feel hunger or thirst which I had at the time.
     
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  7. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

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    Nice thread - it repeats my own experiences with urinary anomolies - anything from extreme thirsts, extreme urgency, colour, consistancy and odour changes. That at least did resolve (but how I know not).
     
  8. Sherlock

    Sherlock tart cherry etc. for joints, insomnia

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    Here's the thing that I'm guessing provides a clue: when I'm sick, I can go into what I think of as diuretic mode, including nights where I'm going 7 times and outputting a liter. I'd lose pounds of bodyweight overnight. But I also had episodes like that years before CFS, when I'd have too much sugar and provoke a candida flareup. The same diuretic mode would occur at times back then. I'm assuming for now that it's the same process.

    Anybody know why it happens? It could be some pathological process, or it could be the body's way of somehow protecting itself from some harm. Possibly this applies to the body's attempts to maintain pH in a desired range. E.g., if candida (or some harmful bacteria) thrive in an acidic environment, then the body might know to impede the pathogens by alkalinizing the bloodstream or urine.

    Here's something that might relate: forced diuresis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_diuresis
    where in wanting to speed elimination of an acidic drug (maybe in an overdose situation), then "When urine is made alkaline, elimination of acidic drugs in the urine is increased." Maybe the body is doing the same thing naturally.
     
  9. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

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    I'm certain it's a pathology(ies) - what infection/immune breakdown sets into motion - over to researchers in the field. But abnormal urine is pretty obvious to me as significant. Not sufficent attention paid to these abnormalties before so it's good to see research and findings.
     

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