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Help with test results

Discussion in 'Diagnostic Guidelines and Laboratory Testing' started by Esmeralda, Jun 15, 2012.

  1. Esmeralda

    Esmeralda

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    I have written about my wife in other threads (http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/suicidal-exhaustion-how-to-deal-with-it.17845/)

    We have now done some test of mineral levels and som other stuff and I would like some help with what to make of them. She got worse a few weeks ago after a B12 injection. Here are the results from the lab:

    Whole Blood Mineral Test (results followed by normal range stated by the lab)
    Na: 2114 (1900-2000 mg/l)
    K: 1662 (1750-1850 mg/l)
    Ca: 65.00 (59.0-61.0 mg/l)
    Mg: 30.84 (34.0-36.0 mg/l)
    Cu: 1.12 (1.10-1.20 mg/l)
    Fe: 405.1 (440-480 mg/l)
    Zn: 6.98 (7.30-7.70 mg/l)
    P: 310.8 (350-390 mg/l)

    Ery: 3.8 (4.1-5.1 Mio./µl)

    Selenium in blood: 75 (80-130 µg/l)

    Coenzym Q10: 0,49 (0.80-1.40 mg/l)

    Fatty acids (the ones where she was low)
    Linoleic acid: 755 (810-1320 mg/l)
    Arachidonic acid: 170 (185-335 mg/l)
    Omega 3-index: 5.5 (6-8%)

    I can of course read out that she is low in several minerals, q10 and some fatty acids, but are these deficiencies relevant? I mean are they big enough to explain her symptoms? I have discussed on this forum that the b12 might have lowered her potassium levels, and indeed, she is low in potassium. The reason I'm asking is that it is very difficult for my wife to eat mineral supplements due to a very sensitive stomach so if we should start working to improve these deficiencies it would be good to know that it is worth and to know which one is most important to work on it if you understand what I mean.
     
  2. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

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    My suggestion, when there are gut issues, is always the same: focus on the gut! Have a look at this:

    LEAKY GUT SYNDROMES: BREAKING THE VICIOUS CYCLE

    In particular, have a look at tables 1 and 2 to see if it rings any bells, for instance.

    Good luck!
     
  3. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    Hi Esmeralda and Husband ;

    These test results certainly explain why she feels so poorly. The hypercalcemia, high blood calcium, alone can make someone feel this way. To find out if Hyperparathyroid is a possibility, have the docs tested her PTH? This condition can disturb electrolytes and other minerals.
     
    justy likes this.
  4. caledonia

    caledonia

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    someone on here reported that they fixed their leaky gut by increasing zinc. she's low in zinc.

    Anyway, I agree that you should start with addressing the gut issues.
     
  5. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    Tundras of Europa
  6. August59

    August59 Daughters High School Graduation

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    The high in sodium and low in Potassium is something that should be corrected, but I do not know if it is so far off to contribute to the symptoms.
     
  7. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    I have found supplementing with transdermal minerals helps - i dont seem to absorb them properly in the stomach. She seems to have some fairly classic M.E imablances. The low potassium probably explains why the b12 shots made her feel worse. I would try it again after supplementing with potassium. COQ10 is pretty important to supplement with, as well as the selenium - supplementing with selenium with vit c has helped me a lot. Its a shame she cant tolerate the b12 shots as with low antioxidant status like this she could do with them as a good front line defence antioxidant cover.
    I have some very similar imbalances and i have gained improvement with supplements and resting.

    I agree with crux that hyperparathyroidsim should be ruled out - its the first thing that came to mind with the high calcium levels - there have been some interesting discussions on the boards about it. You could try searching in the search box.

    Please do send her my best wishes,
    Justy.
     
  8. Esmeralda

    Esmeralda

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    What type of product have you used for transdermal minerals? I've found there is not many products out there part from magnesium sprays.

    I don't know if her doctor has tested PTH. I have two tyroid values from testing she did a few weeks ago at the hospital. They state:

    Serum T4 (free): 17 (normal range 12-22 pmol/L)
    Serum TSH: 4.4 (normal range 0.30-4.2 mlU/L)

    The high TSH value was not a problem according to the GP as long as the T4 was within range. I do not know if these two indicates hyperparathyroid.
     
  9. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

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    In my opinion, with this TSH, she is clearly hypothyroid. I try to keep my TSH between 1 and 2, but as close to 1 as possible. I think it would probably be a good idea to run a complete thyroid panel, such as TSH, T4, free T4, T3, free T3, reverse T3 and T3 uptake. It would also probably be a good idea to look into morning cortisol.
     
  10. SOC

    SOC Moderator and Senior Member

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    I don't know where you are, or whether this is feasible, but it sounds like you need to get your wife to an ME/CFS specialist if at all possible.

    So many times there are lab results that look okay to a GP (because he is looking at the data as they apply to normally healthy people) that an ME/CFS specialist would recognize as problematic for a person with ME/CFS. Very few GPs can adequately manage ME/CFS.

    If you're in the UK, seeing a real ME/CFS doctor (not a psychiatrist who thinks he's an ME/CFS specialist) is much trickier, but there are still some options available.
     
  11. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    The parathyroid glands are located around the thyroid; they perform different functions. Parathyroid Hormone is measured separately. A GP can order the blood test. The measurement of PTH is then compared to the measurement of calcium. If the PTH is a high number and the calcium is also high, it indicates primary hyperparathyroid.

    If the PTH is in normal or low range, then there may be other causes for hypercalcemia.
     
  12. rlc

    rlc Senior Member

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    Hi Esmeralda, RE Serum T4 (free): 17 (normal range 12-22 pmol/L)
    Serum TSH: 4.4 (normal range 0.30-4.2 mlU/L)


    The high TSH value was not a problem according to the GP as long as the T4 was within range. I do not know if these two indicates hyperparathyroid.

    It looks like your wife has fallen victim to out of date TSH reference ranges, they have been scientifically proven to be wrong, and new research shows that the upper range should be 2.5 not 4.2, having T4 in the normal range does not mean that she doesn’t have Hypothyroidism!

    Dr Mirza writes about this issue commonly leading to people being misdiagnosed with CFS in this article http://www.bmj.com/rapid-response/2011/11/01/myth-chronic-fatgue-syndrome in this article he mentions other things that need to be checked for, make sure that they have been it is possible that your wife has more than one condition.

    In this article he explains more about these kinds of TSH results and how to treat it properly http://www.bmj.com/rapid-response/2011/11/02/unveiling-mysteries-thyroid this article explains more about wrong TSH reference ranges and how it happened http://thyroid.about.com/od/gettestedanddiagnosed/a/tshtestwars.htm there is also information on symptoms etc on this site.

    Hyperparathyroidism, is a completely different condition to hypothyroidism, and thyroid tests have nothing to do with it, the parathyroid glands are four separate glands that are around the thyroid gland, high Calcium can be a sign of Hyperparathyroidism, and PTH should be tested as Crux said, it is again a condition that most doctors don’t know how to diagnose correctly, how it should be done is explained here http://parathyroid.com/diagnosis.htm

    Your wife is low in a multitude of minerals etc, this indicates the possibility of malabsorbtion syndromes, the most likely is celiac disease if this has not been tested for info on it can be found here http://celiacdisease.about.com/od/diagnosingceliacdisease/a/celiacdiagnosis.htm Celiac would explain her symptoms and sensitive stomach. There is growing information about a link between celiac and thyroid disorders see http://thyroid.about.com/cs/latestresearch/a/celiac.htm There is no point in trying to treat the deficiencies that your wife has until she has been tested for malabsorbtion syndromes, because if she does have something like Celiac she won’t be able to absorb the vitamins and minerals through the stomach!

    High sodium and low potassium can indicate adrenal insufficiency again an area where doctors often don’t know what they’re doing, information on and how to test correctly are found here http://suite101.com/article/adrenalinsufficiency-a1543

    Make sure she is tested for vitamin D as well; it will be low if she hasn’t been outside in the sun a lot due to ill health or has Celiac and it can cause severe symptoms.

    I’m not a doctor and I’m only providing links to up to date information, but this information does indicate that your wife has a number of other possible conditions that need to be investigated! And her TSH result strongly indicates Hypothyroidism, which fits with her fatigue and depressed symptoms.

    Your wifes test results cast a large shadow of doubt over a CFS diagnosis, and a lot more testing needs doing before she is given a diagnosis of anything with any certainty!

    You will need to print out the up to date information to take to your wife’s doctor, otherwise they are likely to dismiss it. If your wife’s doctor refuses to budge on their out of date beliefs about TSH etc which have been disproved by modern science, I would recommend getting a new more up to date doctor.

    Hope your wife gets this all sorted out for her very soon!

    All the best


     
    justy likes this.
  13. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    Hi, i couldnt agree more about the TSH level - she may not feel well until it goes to about 1 or even below. 17 T4 may appear to be in the middle of the range, but may be a low result for her - some feel better up to 20 or higher.

    One of the problems however for some of us with these thyroid levels is that we then cant tolerate the thryoxine treatment. This happened to me. TSH 2.5 T4 14 indicated subclinical hypotyroidsim (i have ALL the symptoms) but i couldnt tolerate Thyroxine. My levels hardly moved but i felt hyperthyroid. This can be due to either adrenal problems (which need to be sorted out first) low iron problems or heavy metals in the body.

    Transdermal ,mineral spray:

    http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Transdermal_micronutrients

    I think you can order if you are not a patient - her office staff are very helpful and friendly.

    Are you able to get your wife to a good M.E/CFS specialist? It would be good to have an expert to interpret these results and guide treatment.
    All the best Justy.
     
  14. Esmeralda

    Esmeralda

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    I will actually see KDM in a little while so I will bring all these suggestions with me and see what he thinks.
     
  15. jimells

    jimells Senior Member

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    So there are other ways to take magnesium besides oral? I've been using the 'Calm' magnesium citrate for a few years. but I can only take a tiny dose, due to its, ahem, bowel stimulation effects. Recently the GP said I need to take more Magnesium (not based on lab tests, just based on ???) but offered no suggestions when I informed her that it bothers my bowels.

    Is there a form that requires a prescription? This would allow me to have Medicaid pay for it.

    Sure wish I could figure a way to see a real CFS doctor...
     
  16. Esmeralda

    Esmeralda

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