Help with my 23andme results?

[jammies]

Hi everyone;

Just got my 23andme data and would love some advice on how to proceed. I am fighting new onset severe depression and anxiety along with severe fatigue.

I would be so greatful for any guidance. Here is the methylation data. I will post the detox data on a new thread. Thank you!!!

COMT V158M GG -/-
COMT H62H CC -/-
COMT P199P GG -/-
VDR Bsm CT +/-
VDR Taq AG +/-
MAO A R297R TT +/+
ACAT1-02 AG +/-
MTHFR C677T GG -/-
MTHFR 03 P39P GG -/-
MTHFR A1298C GT +/-
MTR A2756G AA -/-
MTRR A66G AG +/-
MTRR H595Y CC -/-
MTRR K350A AA -/-
MTRR R415T CC -/-
MTRR A664A GG -/-
BHMT-02 CT +/-
BHMT-04 AC +/-
BHMT-08 CT +/-
AHCY-01 TT -/-
AHCY-02 AA -/-
AHCY-19 TT -/-
CBS C699T GG -/-
CBS A360A AA +/+
CBS N212N GG -/-
SHMT1 C1420T GG
-/-

 

[jammies]

Also - just want to add that I had a horrible reaction to taking L-carnitine and alpha-lipoic acid. I never had depression or anxiety until I started those and now it's severe. I am looking into the mercury detox pathway as suggested, but am wondering if anybody sees anything here that would indicate why those were such a problem.

Thank you!!

 

[Critterina]

VDR Bsm CT +/-
VDR Taq AG +/-
MAO A R297R TT +/+
ACAT1-02 AG +/-
MTHFR A1298C GT +/-
MTRR A66G AG +/-
BHMT-08 CT +/-
CBS A360A AA +/+

jammies,

I don't know enough to see where the LCF and ALA could have brought on the depression/anxiety. Some people believe that ALA can redistribute mercury through your body and to your brain, particularly if you have amalgam fillings in your teeth. My jury is still out on that.

What I do see is that your mutations may make your neurotransmitter balance a little finicky. You have
MTHFR A1298C GT +/- and MTRR A66G AG +/-, which suggest you might want to supplement with methylfolate and methylcobalamin. The MTHFR A1298C +/-, like mine, can be driven by methylfolate so that you make more BH4, the enzyme that is involved in making neurotransmitters serotonin and dopamine. But your MAO +/+ means that you'll be slower to break down the serotonin and may be sensitive to extra methyl groups, so start with low doses and increase slowly.

I would recommend you read about:

• Freddd's methylation protocol
• Rich Van K's simplified methylation protocol (SMP),
• symptoms of paradoxical (or donut hole) folate deficiency - these are symptoms that occur after you start taking folate that are cured by more folate (so the theory goes, for me it was more methylcobalamin that I needed, but I have MTRR A66G +/+) - and hypokalemia (both described by Freddd when talking about the protocol)
• Symptoms of methyl trap
• Symptoms of over methylation

IMHO, These are the basics. You may end up liking one of the protocols. I prefer Freddd's but I'm not sensitive to methyl groups (yet). If you are, probably Rich's SMP would be a better approach. Knowing the symptoms listed, you'll then know if you are getting into trouble. I, for example, and the exact description of "Level 1 folate deficiency" for two months before figuring out mouth sores and acne on my face and scalp weren't just the hormone therapy I was on (which I started 11 days before these symptoms appeared).

I would guess you would not react well to TMG or SAMe. I could be wrong. About any of this.

Let's hope you get some other opinions, too. Good luck!

 

[jammies]

jammies,

I don't know enough to see where the LCF and ALA could have brought on the depression/anxiety. Some people believe that ALA can redistribute mercury through your body and to your brain, particularly if you have amalgam fillings in your teeth. My jury is still out on that.

What I do see is that your mutations may make your neurotransmitter balance a little finicky. You have
MTHFR A1298C GT +/- and MTRR A66G AG +/-, which suggest you might want to supplement with methylfolate and methylcobalamin. The MTHFR A1298C +/-, like mine, can be driven by methylfolate so that you make more BH4, the enzyme that is involved in making neurotransmitters serotonin and dopamine. But your MAO +/+ means that you'll be slower to break down the serotonin and may be sensitive to extra methyl groups, so start with low doses and increase slowly.

I would recommend you read about:

• Freddd's methylation protocol
• Rich Van K's simplified methylation protocol (SMP),
• symptoms of paradoxical (or donut hole) folate deficiency - these are symptoms that occur after you start taking folate that are cured by more folate (so the theory goes, for me it was more methylcobalamin that I needed, but I have MTRR A66G +/+) - and hypokalemia (both described by Freddd when talking about the protocol)
• Symptoms of methyl trap
• Symptoms of over methylation

IMHO, These are the basics. You may end up liking one of the protocols. I prefer Freddd's but I'm not sensitive to methyl groups (yet). If you are, probably Rich's SMP would be a better approach. Knowing the symptoms listed, you'll then know if you are getting into trouble. I, for example, and the exact description of "Level 1 folate deficiency" for two months before figuring out mouth sores and acne on my face and scalp weren't just the hormone therapy I was on (which I started 11 days before these symptoms appeared).

I would guess you would not react well to TMG or SAMe. I could be wrong. About any of this.

Let's hope you get some other opinions, too. Good luck!

Thanks so much for your interpretation of things Critterina!

I tried about a month ago to start mixed b vitamins, methyl B12, ad-B12, and TMG at the same time. I got quite a lot of anxiety with it and stopped everything deciding to wait for my 23andme results. Perhaps it was the TMG causing the anxiety? Or maybe just too much of everything at once?

 

[Critterina]

Thanks so much for your interpretation of things Critterina!

I tried about a month ago to start mixed b vitamins, methyl B12, ad-B12, and TMG at the same time. I got quite a lot of anxiety with it and stopped everything deciding to wait for my 23andme results. Perhaps it was the TMG causing the anxiety? Or maybe just too much of everything at once?

Hard to say what it was. I was put on about 18 things all at once, too. Maybe start over with no TMG, and only a small dose of MB12, and I would add some methylfolate (MTHF) (because of the MTHFR A1298C +/- and depression). If you do OK with that for a couple of days, increase it little by little. But if you get mouth sores or acne, then you'll need to increase it faster. (That's the paradox.) And you may end up adding the adB12 and/or LCF sooner or later.

Good luck, and I do hope someone else stops by. I've been a this almost a month now - a real newbie.

From what I read here, Solgar Metafolin is the best methylfolate; Enzymatic therapies is the best MB12, but put it in your cheek for an hour instead of chewing and swallowing it. This is only what I read, I haven't got good solid experience with either. I am still using what I bought before I read about this.

 

[stridor]

Also - just want to add that I had a horrible reaction to taking L-carnitine and alpha-lipoic acid. I never had depression or anxiety until I started those and now it's severe. I am looking into the mercury detox pathway as suggested, but am wondering if anybody sees anything here that would indicate why those were such a problem.

Thank you!!

Your experience sounds like mine. In 2009, I started ALA in an attempt to recycle glutathione which as I understood things was implicated in the production of my Bipolar symptoms. It messed me up bad. I had anxiety, brain-fog and depression - I went to a very dark place. I never fully recovered from that and tried a variety of things to push the mitochondria including carnitine and this was also a disaster. I believed at the time that I was attempting to push energy production when I did not have enough glutathione to deal with the resulting increase in superoxide.

In reading some of the material here, I have amended my idea to that as well as low glutathione, I also had low AdenoB12. Anyway, the ALA was no doubt moving mercury. Testing was "off the chart". You can see below that I have enough methylation SNPs that I would be susceptible to anything that interfered with the enzymes of the pathway - or bound to glutathione thereby reducing it - or decreasing the ability of astrocytes to import cystine to produce more glutathione - or increasing overall oxidation....all of which mercury is capable of doing.

I will be very surprised given the similarities in our experiences with these to products if you were not mercury toxic. If you are, you will not be able to resurrect methylation sufficiently to return your health without removing it. This needs to be done with a chelator capable of crossing the BBB. I am closing in on the final months of chelation having used Cutler's Protocol. You can join yahoos FDC group and access the files and pick the minds of the people on that site. Or I can be reached at rodirtor@hotmail.com if you need to contact me away from this site.

 

[jammies]

Your experience sounds like mine. In 2009, I started ALA in an attempt to recycle glutathione which as I understood things was implicated in the production of my Bipolar symptoms. It messed me up bad. I had anxiety, brain-fog and depression - I went to a very dark place. I never fully recovered from that and tried a variety of things to push the mitochondria including carnitine and this was also a disaster. I believed at the time that I was attempting to push energy production when I did not have enough glutathione to deal with the resulting increase in superoxide.

In reading some of the material here, I have amended my idea to that as well as low glutathione, I also had low AdenoB12. Anyway, the ALA was no doubt moving mercury. Testing was "off the chart". You can see below that I have enough methylation SNPs that I would be susceptible to anything that interfered with the enzymes of the pathway - or bound to glutathione thereby reducing it - or decreasing the ability of astrocytes to import cystine to produce more glutathione - or increasing overall oxidation....all of which mercury is capable of doing.

I will be very surprised given the similarities in our experiences with these to products if you were not mercury toxic. If you are, you will not be able to resurrect methylation sufficiently to return your health without removing it. This needs to be done with a chelator capable of crossing the BBB. I am closing in on the final months of chelation having used Cutler's Protocol. You can join yahoos FDC group and access the files and pick the minds of the people on that site. Or I can be reached at rodirtor@hotmail.com if you need to contact me away from this site.

Thanks so much for your comment Stridor. I am sad to read you suffered too, but it strengthens my resolve that mercury may be my issue.

I want to start the Cutler protocol VERY slowly, however I still have to mercury amalgams that need to be removed. I have had a bit of trouble finding a dentist to do it properly, but hope to have them done soon.

How have things gone for you on the protocol? I am terrified of making myself work. If your depression was similar to mine, you can probably understand how devastating it would be to go back to that.

Are you feeling better?

 

[caledonia]

Thanks so much for your interpretation of things Critterina!

I tried about a month ago to start mixed b vitamins, methyl B12, ad-B12, and TMG at the same time. I got quite a lot of anxiety with it and stopped everything deciding to wait for my 23andme results. Perhaps it was the TMG causing the anxiety? Or maybe just too much of everything at once?

Hi everyone;

Just got my 23andme data and would love some advice on how to proceed. I am fighting new onset severe depression and anxiety along with severe fatigue.

I would be so greatful for any guidance. Here is the methylation data. I will post the detox data on a new thread. Thank you!!!

COMT V158M GG -/-
COMT H62H CC -/-
COMT P199P GG -/-
VDR Bsm CT +/-
VDR Taq AG +/-
MAO A R297R TT +/+
ACAT1-02 AG +/-
MTHFR C677T GG -/-
MTHFR 03 P39P GG -/-
MTHFR A1298C GT +/-
MTR A2756G AA -/-
MTRR A66G AG +/-
MTRR H595Y CC -/-
MTRR K350A AA -/-
MTRR R415T CC -/-
MTRR A664A GG -/-
BHMT-02 CT +/-
BHMT-04 AC +/-
BHMT-08 CT +/-
AHCY-01 TT -/-
AHCY-02 AA -/-
AHCY-19 TT -/-
CBS C699T GG -/-
CBS A360A AA +/+
CBS N212N GG -/-
SHMT1 C1420T GG
-/-

It looks like you're going to have to jump through several hoops before you can tolerate methylation.

You have two First Priority mutations which are ACAT and CBS. ACAT is one of the leaky gut SNPs, i.e., people with this SNP can have more gut problems, and if they do, they need to treat the SNP while treating the gut problems to be successful. If you have leaky gut and start methyl supps you can create a deficiency of magnesium and/or potassium, as the mag/potass will be leaking out, yet you're creating a higher demand for it. You can try supplementing to compensate, but I ran into a problem where I needed more than I could possibly supplement. I had to stop methyl supps and additionally take nicotinic acid to shut down methylation as the situation was getting dangerous. There are other reasons to treat the gut first too, such as problems absorbing supps. The best way to treat the gut seems to be with a 4R gut rebuilding program.

You can get a stress/anxiety reaction if you start taking methyl supps and CBS is expressed. CBS A360A is the minor one, but you have a double mutation and you also have all the BHMTs which can add to CBS. So it would be good to check sulfur and ammonia levels and see if they're consistently high. Or to save money, you can just check sulfur levels with urine sulfate strips.

For MTHFR A1298C, some methylfolate. You only have one B12 mutation, which is MTRR. That one is B12 recycling. Maybe a bit of B12 for that, but not a definite thing. If you do take B12, for your COMT/VDR combo, Yasko suggests all three types (hydroxy, adenosyl, and methyl), but with less methyl.

You have all the BHMTs, so some TMG for that. I have the same mutations, but did get overstimulated on a small amount (I think like 50 mg, while 25mg was ok), so you have to be careful.

I had trouble with ALA detoxing too many metals. My metal detox symptoms are more like flu-like aching and fatigue, but there are a wide range of symptoms from mercury including mental ones. I wasn't doing a Cutler flush, but am considering that in the future after I'm ready for it.

When you work on the gut, you will get rid of some metals as bad gut bugs hold onto metals. When you do methylation, that will also cause metal detox and is a reason to keep it low and slow. I had problems with that when I added B12 to folate. I had to limit the amount of B12 to around 55mg.

I also did metal detox (not Cutler) several years prior to working on methylation, but I had to go extremely low and slow to tolerate it, although I was successful. In general though, knowing what I know now, I would get my methylation/detox pathways working better before attempting a Cutler protocol.

I went the route of waiting until my fillings needed replacing, vs. having them taken out right away. It all depends on your situation as to which way is the best.

By the way, mercury and lead can gum up the works at the MTHFR/MTR junction, even if you don't have bad SNPs. But I think your SNPs are similar enough to others on here, that you might have problems even without the mercury. Although, the mercury would certainly add to it.

 

[stridor]

jammies
You will have an easier time of chelation that I did. As much as I owe Andy Cutler a debt of gratitude, he also contributed to my misery. This is because his position on methylation, MTHFR, and just about everything else that has made my chelation journey unique. He also minimized my glutathione theories for my illnesses. Keep in mind that I lost my colon due to a rare disorder that has disrupted methylation of DNA and low glutathione as part of the aetiology.
Because of this, I failed to grasp the significance of what was happening to me - I knew that I had CFS and I knew that methylation was involved but thought that all I had to do was be tough enough to keep chelating and when the mercury levels dropped enough, methylation would be restored and I would walk away unscathed.
Of course, since then I had 23andme testing that shows over 40% of methylation and 45% of mitochondria SNPs are homo or hetero. I left FDC because I have too much respect for Andy to become a thorn in his side. I accept that I am in some ways rare in my presentation and in my long list of ailments.
So you will have an easier time of things. You already know to start low and slow. You already know about methylation and will not push things to the point of ripping up your DNA or chelating yourself into the ground.....all I needed was some mB12...

 

[jammies]

It looks like you're going to have to jump through several hoops before you can tolerate methylation.

You have two First Priority mutations which are ACAT and CBS. ACAT is one of the leaky gut SNPs, i.e., people with this SNP can have more gut problems, and if they do, they need to treat the SNP while treating the gut problems to be successful. If you have leaky gut and start methyl supps you can create a deficiency of magnesium and/or potassium, as the mag/potass will be leaking out, yet you're creating a higher demand for it. You can try supplementing to compensate, but I ran into a problem where I needed more than I could possibly supplement. I had to stop methyl supps and additionally take nicotinic acid to shut down methylation as the situation was getting dangerous. There are other reasons to treat the gut first too, such as problems absorbing supps. The best way to treat the gut seems to be with a 4R gut rebuilding program.

You can get a stress/anxiety reaction if you start taking methyl supps and CBS is expressed. CBS A360A is the minor one, but you have a double mutation and you also have all the BHMTs which can add to CBS. So it would be good to check sulfur and ammonia levels and see if they're consistently high. Or to save money, you can just check sulfur levels with urine sulfate strips.

For MTHFR A1298C, some methylfolate. You only have one B12 mutation, which is MTRR. That one is B12 recycling. Maybe a bit of B12 for that, but not a definite thing. If you do take B12, for your COMT/VDR combo, Yasko suggests all three types (hydroxy, adenosyl, and methyl), but with less methyl.

You have all the BHMTs, so some TMG for that. I have the same mutations, but did get overstimulated on a small amount (I think like 50 mg, while 25mg was ok), so you have to be careful.

I had trouble with ALA detoxing too many metals. My metal detox symptoms are more like flu-like aching and fatigue, but there are a wide range of symptoms from mercury including mental ones. I wasn't doing a Cutler flush, but am considering that in the future after I'm ready for it.

When you work on the gut, you will get rid of some metals as bad gut bugs hold onto metals. When you do methylation, that will also cause metal detox and is a reason to keep it low and slow. I had problems with that when I added B12 to folate. I had to limit the amount of B12 to around 55mg.

I also did metal detox (not Cutler) several years prior to working on methylation, but I had to go extremely low and slow to tolerate it, although I was successful. In general though, knowing what I know now, I would get my methylation/detox pathways working better before attempting a Cutler protocol.

I went the route of waiting until my fillings needed replacing, vs. having them taken out right away. It all depends on your situation as to which way is the best.

By the way, mercury and lead can gum up the works at the MTHFR/MTR junction, even if you don't have bad SNPs. But I think your SNPs are similar enough to others on here, that you might have problems even without the mercury. Although, the mercury would certainly add to it.

Thank you so much for this. Based on your interpretation I started on some methylfolate and some adB12. No TMG or methylB12 yet and I had a lot of anxiety from those when I tried them. It seems hard to believe but I feel dramatically improved since adding those. Honestly, I feel 80% back to normal. I don't know what to make of this as I have tried all kinds of supplements to help this depression/anxiety with no luck. I have even tried the B-right multi and didn't feel this improvement. I am actually nervous about this - feel like I am going to revert and be crushed with disappointment. I wonder if this is because the mercury was blocking the folate entry in to my brain?

I also have a terrible gut. TERRIBLE. I have been working on healing it for years and while i have made improvements, I still struggle.

Anyway - thanks so much for the suggestions. They were amazingly helpful.

 

[jammies]

jammies
You will have an easier time of chelation that I did. As much as I owe Andy Cutler a debt of gratitude, he also contributed to my misery. This is because his position on methylation, MTHFR, and just about everything else that has made my chelation journey unique. He also minimized my glutathione theories for my illnesses. Keep in mind that I lost my colon due to a rare disorder that has disrupted methylation of DNA and low glutathione as part of the aetiology.
Because of this, I failed to grasp the significance of what was happening to me - I knew that I had CFS and I knew that methylation was involved but thought that all I had to do was be tough enough to keep chelating and when the mercury levels dropped enough, methylation would be restored and I would walk away unscathed.
Of course, since then I had 23andme testing that shows over 40% of methylation and 45% of mitochondria SNPs are homo or hetero. I left FDC because I have too much respect for Andy to become a thorn in his side. I accept that I am in some ways rare in my presentation and in my long list of ailments.
So you will have an easier time of things. You already know to start low and slow. You already know about methylation and will not push things to the point of ripping up your DNA or chelating yourself into the ground.....all I needed was some mB12...

Thanks for the encouragement and for the heads up. I am determined to try chelation but have hit a couple of hiccups getting my last amalgam removed. Holistic dentists are not all on the up and up it seems