Invest in ME Conference 12: First Class in Every Way
OverTheHills wraps up our series of articles on this year's 12th Invest in ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London with some reflections on her experience as a patient attending the conference for the first time.
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Help with Methylation

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by beachy, Dec 13, 2013.

  1. beachy

    beachy

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    Hi,
    I have been trying to help my 23 year old daughter (CFS for 6 months now) start on Fredd's methylation programme but I'm looking for some advice as it's not going so well.

    We started off with the B-complex plus for 4 days
    Then we added 1 Enzymatic Therapy B12 (1mg) for four days
    Then we started on 1/4 tablet Dibencozide B12 (2mg) on alternate days for a week.

    The first time she took the Dibencozide she noticed increased urination but that has sorted itself out

    Next she tried the Solgar Folate 400mcg.

    This is when she became much worse. Her fatigue increased greatly and whereas before she could do about 4 hours work at home she was too weary to do anything much and her concentration decreased. She describes it as feeling "totally blah".
    We've reduced the Folate to every other day, but if anything this made matters worse - althought this could also be due to a stressful meeting.


    Does this sound like a start up reaction? It seems quite a drastic change and she really needs to get back to her previous levels as she was trying to convince her supervisor that she could go back to work. Would it be best to decrease the B12 for a while?

    Any input would be much appreciated
     
  2. howirecovered

    howirecovered Senior Member

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    Break the folate into quarters and go slower, starting with a 200 mcg chunk. remember she's already getting some folate in the B complex plus.

    You may want to run for three weeks without any additional folate, just what's in the B complex plus and then try again with the extra 200 mcg.
     
    PennyIA likes this.
  3. caledonia

    caledonia

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    Cincinnati, OH, USA
    Read the Start Low and Go Slow document in my signature.
     
  4. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Salt Lake City
    Hi Beachy,

    You will likely find many of her symptoms in one or both groups for either low potassium and/or donut hole paradoxical folate insufficiency. These happen almost every the time that methylation is successfully started. hey are a flag of healing. Adjust the doses on potassium to prevent dangerous effects that can lead to death. Adjust the methylfolate until the symptoms disappear, keeping the same doses of active b12s. Since folate/b12 healing turns on by layers, it is NOT controllable by dose control. And turning healing on and off over and over againn makes things worse usually. By adjust the doses by reasonable amounts, in an adult the range of potassium needed in healing is typically 1200-3000 mg. The ranges of Metafolin goes from about 1600mcg to 20mg or so depending upon reactions to folic acid, folinic acid and /or veggie folates.

    Version 1.2 12/08/2013

    Group 1 – Hypokalemia onset. Symptoms may appear with serum potassium as high as 4.3. May become dangerous if ignored. Considered “rare” with CyCbl (cyanocobalamin) it is very common with MeCbl (methylcobalamin) and AdoCbl (adenosylcobalamin) and less so with HyCbl (Hydroxycobalamin).

    There does not appear to be a clear order of onset. The order of onset varies widely from person to person but many appear consistent for each episode for any given person. There tend to be more and more intense symptoms as it gets worse. Some people have ended up in the ER because of not recognizing the symptoms.

    IBS – Steady constipation, Nausea, Vomiting, Paralyzed Ileum,

    Hard knots of muscle, Sudden muscle spasms when relaxed, Sudden muscle spasms when stretching , Sudden muscle spasms when kneeling, Sudden muscle spasms when reaching , Sudden muscle spasms when turning upper body to side, Tightening of muscles, spasms and excruciating pain in neck muscles, waking up screaming in pain from muscle spasms in legs. Muscle weakness

    Abnormal heart rhythms (dysrhythmias), increased pulse rate, increased blood pressure

    Emotional changes and/or instability, dermal or sub-dermal Itching, and if not treated potentially paralysis and death.


    Group 2a - Both

    IBS – Diarrhea alternating with constipation, IBS – Normal alternating with constipation


    Group 2b – Either or both

    Headache, Increased malaise, Fatigue


    Group 3 - Induced and/or Paradoxical Folate deficiency or insufficiency

    These symptoms appear in 2 forms generally, the milder symptoms that start with partial methylation block and the more severe symptoms that come on as partial methylation block gets worse or very quickly with methyltrap onset.

    Edema - An additional thing I would like to mention. I would never have found it without 5 years of watching the onset of paradoxical folate insufficiency and trying to catch it earlier and earlier and to figure out what was causing it and to reverse it. For me the onset order goes back to the day of onset now with edema and a sudden increase of weight. I noticed that within 2 hours of taking sufficient Metafolin I would have an increase in urine output.

    Old symptoms returning

    Angular Cheilitis, Canker sores,

    Skin rashes, increased acne, Skin peeling around fingernails, Skin cracking and peeling at fingertips,

    Increased hypersensitive responses, Runny nose, Increased allergies, Increased Multiple Chemical Sensitivities, Increased asthma, rapidly increasing Generalized inflammation in body, Increased Inflammation pain in muscles, Increased Inflammation pain in joints, Achy muscles, Flu like symptoms

    IBS – Steady diarrhea, IBS – Diarrhea alternating with normal, Stomach ache, Uneasy digestive tract,

    Coated tongue, Depression, Less sociable, Impaired planning and logic, Brain fog, Low energy, Light headedness, Sluggishness, Increase irritability, Heart palpitations,


    Longer term, very serious

    Loss of reflexes, Fevers, Forgetfulness, Confusion, Difficulty walking, Behavioral disorders, Dementia, Reduced sense of taste, bleeding easily


    Group 4 - Hydroxycbl onset, degraded methylcbl onset, methylcbl after photolytic breakdown onset.

    Itchy bumps generally on scalp or face that develops to acne like lesions in a few days from start.
     

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