Invest in ME Conference 12: First Class in Every Way
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Help with insomnia meds

Discussion in 'Sleep' started by deleder2k, Dec 2, 2016.

  1. deleder2k

    deleder2k Senior Member

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    Hi

    I have been suffering from insomnia for the last 3-4 years. I have tried amitriptyline, melatonin, magnesium, zopiclone, zolpidem, oxazepam and diazepam.


    I've ended up using zopiclone the last year or so. I start with 3.75 mg for 4-6 weeks, then I use 7.5 mg for 2-3 months before I go cold turkey for 7-10 days. Not an ideal solution, but it has been working alright. I've never used more than 7.5 mg to get to sleep.

    Because of some new driving rules I may have to stop using zopiclone. Either stop taking it at all, or use 3.75 mg max. I use oxycodone for pain in the evenings. Apparently that is why I can't use 7.5 mg zopiclone any longer :/

    My doc gave me Seroquel (Quetiapine, 25 mg) a few days ago. I tried it two nights. Made me sleep in 30 minutes. The problem was the morning after. My mouth was dry as Sahara. I felt disorientated, and I also felt even more physical reduced than I usually do. I'm doing shit lately, so I'm not 100% sure about my last point about muscle weakness.

    Can I expect the side effects to taper off? I was given Seroquel because of new driving regulations, but I can't understand why this drug is not on the same list as zopiclone. Perhaps the side effects go away if I continue, but I wasn't fit to drive at all the two mornings after I've tried it.
    Can anyone offer me some advice? I'm open to trying other sleep meds. I think benzos are out of the question since I am also taking oxycodone. Amitriptyline made me feel sleepy 24/7. Melatonin doesn't work.

    I don't feel very good about quetiapine. I found a meta study saying that it should be avoided for insomnia because of potential side effects. The study concluded that we don't know enough about this drug to recommend it for chronic insomnia.
     
    gabriella17 likes this.
  2. *GG*

    *GG* Senior Member

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    Ah, why have you not tried Trazadone or my favorite Remeron?

    GG
     
  3. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    @deleder2k - here's what helped me with a seemingly intractable insomnia problem:

    niacin (it stimulates GABA receptors) - I originally took 500 mg before bed and 500 mg middle of the night, but had to double it when I started a lorazepam taper. Niacin will almost certainly cause a flushing effect which can be unpleasant but is not harmful, and I actually look forward to it because it means I'll sleeping soon. Do NOT get time-release niacin, which has been linked to liver damage

    niacinamide is also supposed to be effective, though niacin seems to work better for me

    inositol - enhances effect of GABA - I take 500 mg before bed and 1000 mg middle of the night

    l-glycine - 2000 mg before bed and 2000 mg middle of the night

    l-theanine - 200 mg before bed, 200 - 300 mg middle of the night

    Theanine Serene by Source Naturals - one before bed, 2 middle of the night

    melatonin - 3 mg sublingual by Natrol before bed, 3 mg middle of the night

    150 mg 5-htp before bed (be careful if you're taking an SSRI as you may develop serotonin syndrome)

    I know this is a lot of stuff, but it works and I hate taking any drugs I don't have to, particularly something like Seroquel. I think doctors don't know enough about sleep and so hand out often dangerous drugs.

    Also, make sure your blood sugar doesn't drop in the middle of the night - mine was dropping, I didn't realize this, which caused a rise in an adrenaline or cortisol, causing insomnia. I've been eating low carb for many years but now am having either a potato with dinner, or a little bit of potato before bed, and if worst comes to worst, having a little bit in the middle of the night. It helps.

    And if high cortisol at night (separate from the blood sugar issue) is part of your insomnia problem, Relora can help a lot with this.

    One last thing - make sure your potassium levels are adequate - low potassium can contribute to insomnia.
     
    wintergreen likes this.
  4. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    And I did try trazodone - it helped with sleep but made me very tired and fuzzy the next day, even at a low dose. I much prefer all the supplements I take, am sleeping with no bad side effects.
     
  5. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    Seroquel I too find its an aweful drug and will leave me with after affects the next day including confusion and less physically able. amitriptyline which a dr put me on for sleep didnt work for me either (and just gave me horrific side affect, I almost had to have surgery after being on that for trial)

    I suggest you try doxylamine succinate. You can buy this over the counter for sleep but take care as tollerance can be built up to it so it can stop working if used constantly (I built up a tollerance with this in only 2-3 weeks). So if you use it use the lowest dose which works for you (I found just a crumb of a pill (1/8th pill) worked for me. When Im using it, I only take it 4-5 days a week (so give myself a break from it every few days) and had no more issues with having to raise it further).

    Many of us are using doxylamine succinate for sleep.

    What dose of melatonin did you try to take? I found I need 2-3mg of this for any affect, anything less does nothing for me and melatonin is only really useful for getting to sleep about 2 hrs earlier (slow release melatonin doesnt work for me). I have sometimes also combined taking this with other sleep things so I can take a lower dose of something else.
    ....

    One thing I discovered in my case affects sleep is I have some EMF sensitivity. Ive only though noticed this when it comes to sleep and using an electric blanket. That makes my insomnia worst if Im in bed with electric blanket on so I never get into bed now with that still on.

    I went through a stage where i had to have my whole room completely dark to sleep (had to block any lights from clock radio and had to board my window up).
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2016
  6. CFS_for_19_years

    CFS_for_19_years Hoarder of biscuits

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    I have been taking 37.5mg of seroquel for pain and sleep for about a year now. The side effects don't go away. I feel sleepy during the day because of it, but if I don't take it, I don't sleep well.

    Pregabalin (Lyrica) is prescribed for pain but it may be useful for sleep when taken in the evening. Most doctors start you at a low dose (25-50mg) to see how you react to it. If your kidneys are good (eGFR >60) you could be prescribed as much as a 300mg dose to be taken all at once, which would put a lot of people to sleep.

    ETA: Tizanidine, a muscle relaxant, is often used off-label for sleep. It's powerful, but short-acting. If I wasn't already taking seroquel, I'd ask my doctor if I could take tizanidine instead. I have a lot of pain in the evening so one night I did an experiment. It was around 3 a.m. and my pain was around a 6 or 7 out of 10, the point where I would usually take another dose of morphine and/or Vicodin. I didn't take those meds, but instead I took 2.5mg of tizanidine and it put me to sleep in spite of my high pain levels. I stayed asleep all night and didn't have a morning hangover or any side effects the following day.

    Tizanidine is prescribed in much larger doses on a daily basis for patients with MS, so I don't think the small 2.5mg dose is a big concern. I'd be surprised if you needed more than 5mg. You absolutely cannot drive once you've taken tizanidine, but you'll be fine the following day.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2016
  7. greeneagledown

    greeneagledown Senior Member

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    I take 3 mg of Melatonin and 1800 mg Neurontin (gabapentin) 45 minutes before bedtime. Works great for me. Neurontin is not a sleep medicine per se, but it's sometimes used off-label for sleep. I know a small open-label trial for insomnia was successful but I don't think any other trials have been done. It doesn't really zonk you out like most sleeping meds do -- it more just quiets your mind.

    Hope this helps.
     
    Dechi likes this.
  8. edawg81

    edawg81 Senior Member

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    .5 mg of Klonopin and 2 drop of doxepin have been working for me. I used to doxylamine succinate, l-theanine, and valarian, but those didn't seem to keep up as my insomnia got worse. The insomnia is definitely from this flare and the antivirals I'm on, slept fine before, so I hope if I can recover some the insomnia will go away and get off the meds. I didn't do good with Trazadone, so I like the doxepin because you can titrate up or down as needed.
     
  9. wintergreen

    wintergreen

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    Hi,
    See you've only been 3 or 4 years on psychiatric drugs. I was on a cocktail of these drugs for 20+ years. It helped force me to sleep but after 20 years...it made me immune to all drugs and supplements. That is, if I get 5-15 minutes of sleep per month, I'd consider myself lucky. I took 4 years to successfully wean from these drugs and could sleep for about 8 months. After that, I believe (from my research) that the drugs attached itself to fatty tissues and presently, I don't even get 5 minutes of sleep, at least not this week. I hope my story will get insomnia sufferers to stop taking all these chemical drugs. I eat clean and green foods and I think that is why I still act normal.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 23, 2016
    redrachel76, xrayspex and geraldt52 like this.
  10. StrayCat

    StrayCat

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    Hi,Previously I had insomnia.I tried all of anti-depressants,antipsychotic benzodiazepine drugs,but didn't work(only horrible side effects).
    Now,I take that before bedtime...
    •pregabalin(25mg)
    •clonidine(75μg)
    •ramelteon(2-4mg)
    and weekly buprenorphine patch(5mg)
    they don't make me sleepy,but I take good sleep.
    (my weight:45kg)

    However,I newly diagnosed with idiopathic hypersomnia...(anyway I've been having that abnormally sleepiness since I was a naughty kid)
     
    panckage likes this.
  11. notmyself

    notmyself Senior Member

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    I fix my sleep with aswhaghanda..
     
  12. Basilico

    Basilico Florida

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    Could you describe what type of insomnia you have? (Difficulty falling asleep, difficulty staying asleep, waking up too early and not being able to fall back asleep, restless sleep, no sleep at all) because that will effect some suggestions I might have.

    One thing I will throw out is Baclofen. It is a mild non-habit forming muscle relaxant that doctors are generally pretty happy to prescribe because there's no abuse potential. It doesn't help my muscle spasms at all, but when I take it, I'm out like a light all night long. It's a GABA agonist, which is why. I don't know about combining it with the other meds you're on, but it could be worth talking to your doctor about trying it. As a bonus, it's one of Goldstein's top 23 drugs for CFS.
     
  13. notmyself

    notmyself Senior Member

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    5-15 min of sleep per month?...sorry but that's just impossible :)
     
    slysaint and Dechi like this.
  14. wintergreen

    wintergreen

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    No one believed me except my new integrative doctor and because of this, she has helped me improve the quality of proteins in my diet and pinpointed supplements. Consequently my sleep has improved tremendously. When I made such statements, it was to try and help others in similar situations, not to exaggerate and impress others with wild statements. It's okay, one sister also never believed me.
     
  15. BFitz89

    BFitz89

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    I can believe it because, although still much more than you, consistently only getting 2 hours of sleep a night... With periods of no sleep for 3 to 5 days. This disease sucks, but the lack of sleep might be the worst.
     
  16. perchance dreamer

    perchance dreamer Senior Member

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    I think I might be the only one in these forums to do well with Belsomra. I use it every other night because nightly use diminishes its effectiveness for me. I take Trazone on the nights I don't use Belsomra.
     
  17. 5150

    5150 Senior Member

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    -----------------------------
    If you are serious about your current sleep numbers, I would be worried. That is about the lowest amount of sleep I have ever heard about from anybody. What about a few months of Ambien / 10 mg/ can be cut to smaller doses.I haven't found anything that comes close to it. Just have to be very respectful of it. follow directions. it can be a problem if not used properly.
     
  18. 5150

    5150 Senior Member

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  19. A zombie

    A zombie

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    How much? I've got ash and I've never found it to help . Do you take during the day too?
     
  20. gabriella17

    gabriella17 Senior Member

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    Not sure why you were prescribed Seroquel. It's an antipsychotic drug used to treat schizophrenia. It could cause drowsiness as well. I currently take trazadone. Knocks me out pretty quickly, and I haven't experienced drowsiness or inability to wake up the next morning.

    So, maybe ask your doctor about trazadone? It's not a controlled substance.
     
    *GG* likes this.

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