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Help with gut problems - chronic depression/anxiety/insomnia

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by renski, Dec 29, 2016.

  1. renski

    renski

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    Hello..

    I'm having a really terrible time with depression/anxiety/insomnia, I was taking a product that kills microbes in the gut (Candibactin AR) over a year ago now when these symptoms became chronic. I had some level of depression/anxiety/insomnia before that, but it became chronic when I was using the Candibactin AR. I was taking probiotics along with it for about 3 months, then one day I decided to stop the probiotics and that was when my symptoms became much worse. So I guess I killed off some good bacteria and allowed some bad bacteria to flourish (possibly Clostridia and more Candida).

    I've tried probiotics again, many different ones, most either make my depression worse, or they will make me feel very hyper (like I've had 10 cups of coffee). An example would be lactobacillus GG - this makes me feel hyper, whereas lactobacillus acidophilus is more depression. Most Bifidobacterium will make me feel more hyper. Even Mutaflor can do something similar, and this even is using very minor doses.

    I've attached a bunch of test results, I haven't included blood work because there isn't anything really out of range, my zinc levels were at the bottom of the range (9.7) when I last tested.

    I find it difficult to tolerate most supplements, glutamine for example makes me feel very hyper and wired. Vitamin B3 does something similar. Colostrum will do it. I can barely tolerate any P5P, even though I'm extremely low on it. It will give me too much energy. My amino acids are all extremely low, so I know my digestion is screwed up. I can't take Betaine HCL because it makes me feel a bit wired as well. Glutathione and NAC both make me feel very hyper. It seems anything that stimulates my immune system makes me hyper. I think my big problem is the leaky gut but I'm not sure how to heal it. I'm doing a low fodmap/SCD diet at the moment (have only been on it for a few days though).

    Some of my TH1/TH2 cytokines are off the charts (results are attached), it seems to be mostly TH2 but they don't look normal at all.

    Really appreciate any help!
     

    Attached Files:

    ljimbo423 likes this.
  2. Eastman

    Eastman Senior Member

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    ljimbo423 and ebethc like this.
  3. frederic83

    frederic83 Senior Member

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    France
    @renski

    I'm in the same boat as you. I think your problem is gut inflammation, and I have not find anything for that. But for the anxiety/depression, I found that methylB12 sublingually and low dose melatonin 1mg or less (during the day) help at some level. For your insomnia problem, if you have not experiment with it, you can try 3mg of melatonin sublingual, more or less, 1 hour before to got to bed. Although It is not a silver bullet. I hope this helps.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2016
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  4. renski

    renski

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    @frederic83 @Eastman

    methylB12 will make me feel like I'm jumping off the wall, most B vitamins give too much energy and make sleep worse. Melatonin makes my sleep worse, I haven't tried it during the day.

    A doctor gave me some CBD oil for glutamate, it calmed me down but made my anxiety worse... i can't win no matter what I do. I think the high DHPPA levels and the overgrowth of lactobacillus in the bioscreen indicate upper bowel problem, but antibiotics don't work. I wonder about my stomach acid, if zinc is low then that could contribute right? But then there are other factors to stomach acid.. and my anxiety probably doesn't help good digestion.

    I feel full most of the time and only get hunger feelings if I really wait a long time to eat.

    If I eat anything processed carb or even just a wholegrain cracker, I get more depression and anxiety.

    The symptoms I have are just debilitating.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2016
  5. renski

    renski

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  6. Benn0

    Benn0

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    Hi, I just signed up after stumbling over some of your posts on strep overgrowth. I have had similar issues with severe anxiety, mild depression and insomnia among some others. After a lot of doctors and naturopath visits I found out about pyroluria and methylation. It affects the absorption of B6 and zinc, low B6 means low GABA production and high glutamate levels. And some bacterial strains like strep thrive in high glutamate.

    I'm not sure if you have already looked into it, but you can get a urine test for pyroluria through some naturopaths, and there are a small number of doctors that specialise in it (generally nutritional doctors), but they tend to be expensive and have long waiting lists. Its also worth getting tested for methylation, whole body histamine blood test is indicative. You sound like you will be an undermethylator.

    If you do get a positive result I would definitely recommend a biobalance trained doctor, naturopaths can be a hit and miss with this.

    http://www.biobalance.org.au/patients/find-practitioners

    Also if they give you a primer or a compound supplement, tell them you don't react well to P5P and would prefer to dose that separately.

    There's also some good resources in the pyroluria facebook groups.

    Hope that helps.
     
  7. renski

    renski

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    hi @Benn0

    Have tried some doctors at biobalance and they weren't very good, these guys don't even run organic acids tests (which is like treating the patient blind). I have pyroluria but it's more complicated then that, I know because don't tolerate even a small amount of the pyroluria supplements.
     
  8. Benn0

    Benn0

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    Ok, I didn't do an organic acids test either. They just did the urine and whole body histamine test to determine pyrrole level and methylation status - undermethylator for me. So there are some PD supplements that I can't take due to their adverse reaction with my methylation pathway. They include Manganese, Folic acid, and Niacinamide. Overmethylators have a different list.

    I also have to avoid Fish Oil (omega3) because it competes with omega6 for B6 for absorption, that really amped up my anxiety levels when I was taking it.

    Also as an undermethylator I had the usual copper dumping when starting zinc supplements, which gave me nausea, headaches, pimples, irritability, anxiety attacks, muscle ache, etc. I think there are a few others too. But it passed after a few weeks, seems to be common amongst other sufferers posting in the facebook groups. Some drop back their dosage, or move it to the night time to reduce the adverse effects. I've been upping mine, each time my zinc is increased I get another round of copper dumping, feel terrible for a couple weeks, then it comes good.

    Vitamin B6 seems to be an important factor in the synthesis of Dopamine, GABA and Serotonin, so that appears to have been the cause of my issues.

    Hope that helps, this journey has been an eye opener for me.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2017
  9. bonniecat1

    bonniecat1

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    Hey @renski,

    just thought I'd check in and see how you're doing.

    I can empathise with your condition - in fact I'm almost in the exact same boat. I've done all the same tests - Bioscreens, OAT, Pyrroles etc. The results; much the same.

    - The high strep/low e coli.
    - The intolerance to all the supplements that will supposedly help me.
    - The crippling anxiety and frustration with lack of progress.

    I've tried treating the gut dysbiosis with antibiotics and natural antimicrobials, psychiatric meds (SSRIs, benzos) and pretty much every supplement under the sun. Majority of which are now in my aptly named 'supplement graveyard'.

    Then the emotional side of things, countless therapy sessions - psychologists, counsellors, psychiatrists etc. It does take it's toll. Every time something doesn't work, it's incredibly hard to pick yourself up and go again. Financially, it's very difficult too. Especially if you've had trouble working due to your condition.

    I've been on this path for a couple of years now, and whilst it's been difficult, at times I've found some respite. I might have a few ideas to provide some relief. More than that, just wanted you to know you're not alone.

    Cheers!
     
  10. ljimbo423

    ljimbo423 Senior Member

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    United States, New Hampshire
    Hello renski- I am as certain I can be that my biggest problem is also leaky gut caused by dysbiosis. From all the research I have done and my personal experience, a low carb diet is CRUCIAL to clear dysbiosis and heal a leaky gut. I believe most people will fail, even with prescription antibiotics and herbal antibiotics, without a long term low carb diet in conjunction with these things.

    I am on the same diet by the way, the fodmap/scd combo! I have made good progress in the last 4 months. One of my biggest surprises was how much my anxiety has lowered, it is significant to say the least! I believe it's the lipopolysaccharides (LPS) that get into the bloodstream from a leaky gut that causes so many symptoms, not the least of which is anxiety.

    I have done 2 courses of Rifaximin, with the low carb diet and it has helped tremendously. I now take antibiotic herbs to continue to treat the dysbiosis and continue to improve. Your TH2 dominant cytokines I think are very common in cfs, as a result of the LPS on the immune system. I also have high TH2 dominance. I am taking Reishi and cordyceps, which help to boost TH1 cytokines.

    The cordyceps seems to work much better than the Reishi. Another big improvement I have had in the last few months is that my flu-like symptoms have lessened a lot! Another connection I have made to LPS, is my flu-like symptoms, as well as my anxiety. As my bacterial dysbiosis lessens, so do my flu-like symptoms. Don't give up, your on the right track!:)
     
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  11. wonderoushope

    wonderoushope Senior Member

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    I've had insomnia, small bouts of depression (I didn't even realise what it was, until I started to sit back and realise) and anxiety. I've always had anxiety but never insomnia. In fact, for a time my flight or fight symptoms were out of whack and I was jumping at every little thing and just on edge and angry.

    I haven't done low FODMAPS exactly like @ljimbo423 I am currently on the chemical intolerance diet RPAH and I have found it to help a lot, and uncover some answers. I suspect now I have issues with FODMAPS, because even on the RPAH diet there are some high FODMAP foods, and I seem to be reacting to those.

    I have learnt from the diet (with a trained dietitian) that I probably have issues with amine, or at least chocolate. I get very angry, hyper and then crash after a few pieces of dark chocolate.

    I've also learnt to help with fatigue I need to eat low GI foods throughout the day and because there is not much low GI on the RPAH diet, I have to stick to legumes and vegetables for breakfast. But has made a big difference in energy levels and sustaining them throughout the day. My insomnia has improved but not perfect. Other symptoms have died down a lot, including anxiety. Aches and pains have died down, nausea, run down feeling, sneezing, headaches have all reduced.

    Probiotics are not always the best to take. Perhaps it's worthwhile investigating food and mood. Like if you have an issue with amines, then probiotics are no good as they have amines in them.

    Like for me I had no clue amines would give me such a reaction and because it takes a few days for me to get a reaction to certain foods, I would have been none the wiser if it wasn't for the diet and writing everything down.
     
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  12. jpcv

    jpcv Senior Member

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    SE coast, Brazil
    You´re absolutely right, starting a low carb/antiinflamatory diet + probiotics was the only thing that improved my symptoms in two years
    It helped with anxiety and my insomnis got better.
    I strongly recomend a blog entry by 62milestogojoe about probiotics and gut treatment
     
    ljimbo423 likes this.
  13. pattismith

    pattismith Senior Member

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    Seems you have an inbalance in your gut microbiome:

    -not enough of the good E.Coli
    -Too much of Lactobacillus Acidophilus (big producer of D-lactates)
    -Clostridium high?
    -Anaerobic excess/aerobic microbiome bacterias

    Your laboratory says that you should eat Fucose rich and Galactose rich food in order to feed your E. Coli, or take supplement you with fucose (or fucoidane) and Galactose

    And your Amino-acids are low.

    Did you tryed to eat Whey Isolate (amino acids), there was a threat on the forum:
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ng-identified-by-researchers-which-one.48557/

    I choose to take Whey Isolate 100 and it helps me!
     

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