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Help with glutamine info?

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by EMilo, Jun 14, 2013.

  1. EMilo

    EMilo Elizabethmilo.com

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    Hi everyone,

    I swear I spent ages reading posts about glutamine and I'm still confused. Can someone with the knowledge at the tip of their brains tell me what exactly glutamine can do for us, if there are any problems with taking it (contraindications with other supplements/drugs or side effects to watch for), and what a good brand is?

    My doctor has instructed me to take 20 grams a day of glutamine powder.

    Thank you!!
     
  2. Plum

    Plum Senior Member

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    My experience is that it's good for helping heal the gut. BUT I have only ever managed 1/2 teaspoon twice a day. I think the recommended dose is usually 5g. It helps repair the gut lining from leaky gut.

    I thought it was contraindicated with some ME people due to it's effect on the brain - I'm sure someone else can explain this bit as I don't remember it myself.
     
  3. undcvr

    undcvr Senior Member

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    Your doc is a a pretty wise person. It's a great supplement if you react badly to it switch to AKG. Most pple with ME wud prefer AKG anyway cos AKG scavenges ammonia in the blood, binds to it and becomes glutamine. I think that glutamineis an essential step to go thru for healing for ME.
     
  4. EMilo

    EMilo Elizabethmilo.com

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    Thanks for the help! I would love to know why it is contraindicated in some... And I have no idea what AKG is, but I will google it.

    For now I will trust my doctor. 20 grams/day does seem a lot, though, based on what I've read on here.

    Does anyone have a brand they recommend?
     
  5. Plum

    Plum Senior Member

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    I use Higher Nature's.

    I think 20g may give you an upset stomach - for me I get an odd ache and become windy on 5g so I don't know what 20g would do.
     
  6. John H Wolfe

    John H Wolfe Senior Member

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    This relates to the work of those such as Maes et al. (2008), suggestive of the following as aiding the alleviation of symptoms associated with ME/CFS (through the link to gut bacteria):

    Supplements: e.g. Glutamine, NAC, Zinc

    Diet: 'Leaky Gut' protocols (low carb etc)
     
  7. undcvr

    undcvr Senior Member

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    AKG is alpha keto-glutarate, it is the glutamine molecule with the the ammonia (NH3) group removed
     
    Jarod likes this.
  8. EMilo

    EMilo Elizabethmilo.com

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    Wow, thanks for all this!
     
  9. EMilo

    EMilo Elizabethmilo.com

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    Great, thank you!
     
  10. EMilo

    EMilo Elizabethmilo.com

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    Thanks, Plum! I had already ordered Jarrow Formula's glutamine powder, but I'll be careful to work up slowly to the 20g. I do NOT need a windy issue (I already have trouble from my cpap).
     
  11. undcvr

    undcvr Senior Member

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    Like most ME supplements, in fact i think all of them, Glutamine is only effective for a certain window of your disease and if taken when your ME is too far out can cause even more complications.

    Glutamine is used to help treat leaky gut or gut permeability however if your gut has too many issues with it or if glutamine itself it not enough it Will let the glutamine pass through into the bloodstream directly without uptaking in the gut first. You Do Not want this to happen. This will raise the levels of glutamine in the blood and and can lead to glutamine induced toxicity bcos it passes through the blood brain barrier relatively quickly.This together with all the nonsense aka toxins that your gut is letting through directly into the bloodstream can lead to an exacerbation of symptoms. Your liver will be of no help bcos it is already being over burdened trying to filter out stuff in the blood that your gut shud not be letting through in the first place. You are in a 'toxic' state.However if Glutamine is only one of the few things that your body needs to correct the imbalance then Glutamine will be taken in by the gut and actually used by gut cells to heal itself. This is related to the paleo diet and why it works well for pple with ME.

    So depending on your overall general state of health it will either help you or not, the only way to find out is to try. Good luck and enjoy.
     
    Misfit Toy and Plum like this.
  12. Jarod

    Jarod Senior Member

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    Interesting tib-bit on AKG for those considering it. Obviously doesn't apply to everybody...

    Excitoxicity might explained why it may be "contraindicated with some ME people due to it's effect on the brain" Dr Russell Blaylock has done some interesting videos on excitoxicity.


    http://www.heartfixer.com/AMRI-Nutrigenomics.htm
     
  13. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    This is wrong. Alpha-ketobutyrate is produced, not AKG.
     
  14. Jarod

    Jarod Senior Member

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    Hi Adreno,

    The article I linked says "alpha-ketoglutarate"

    there is a supplement called "
    A-AKG Powder, Arginine Alpha-Ketoglutarate"



    Where is the mix up? Different supplement? that was the only supplement I could find with an AKG in it

    Thanks,
    Jarod
     
  15. undcvr

    undcvr Senior Member

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    Jarod there is also a molecule called alpha keto buyrate which is an intermediate molecule made along the way to making cysteine.
    If the article was citing Yasko's CBS upregulation theory involving homocysteine then it is almost surely referring to alpha ketobutyrate and not AKG. The body actually makes alot of different alpha keto molecules on its way to making the final product. Also that article is a little strange as the reaction often goes in the other direction instead, after all, that is the definition of catabolism and allows AKG to go into the Krebs cycle. From the article you mentioned, it follows that taking lots of glutamate/glutamine makes u more calm in a healthy person due to the conversion to GABA ?? Does this really happen ?? And hth do u limit 'AKG-rich foods' ?? AKG is not found in nature, in the body the ratio is 1 to 1 with NH3 cancelling out its effects.

    This has alrdy been discussed on the thread below where they tried to clear up the confusion. Basically the whole premise of your quote is wrong. Your body wud be so lucky to over produce AKG. It would enter the mitochondria and help each and every cell in the body burn energy, you would not be suffering from chronic fatigue in the first place.

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/couple-of-questions.22718/

    P.S. Amy Yasko herself made that same mistake and it has been pointed out to her. She has made the changes. But that is also the reason why so many pple now are questioning her theory bcos that is a very key foundation to it. And quite frankly to mistake AKG for AKB as a Dr is just sad. I don't like to comment on some of these pple's work but too many lives are at stake and pple really haven't been getting any better.
     
  16. Jarod

    Jarod Senior Member

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    Hi undcvr and all,

    The idea of scavenging the ammonia and creating glutamine instead sounds intriguing. Be interested to hear if anybody is having any luck.

    It turns out that H Pylori can also increase ammonia. Something to keep in mind if one think s they have gastritis etc..


    Found some good info to help understand a bit more about AKG/OKG, etc..

    http://www.smart-publications.com/a...tarate-OKG-promotes-glutamine-and-muscle-mass


    From another good blog:

    Apparently it is also important to balance aminos according "Polly" or else one ends up throwing off more ammonia etc..

    http://healthyawareness.com/thread-how-to-remove-ammonia
     
  17. undcvr

    undcvr Senior Member

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    woah sorry just saw this, Polly is wrong! "Usually, just one amino acid isn’ t appropriate. Every amino acid affects every other amino acid. Anytime you take just one amino, you will throw off a whole set of other amino acids."

    It has been shown that the liver can wait for amino acids even if the required amino acid to build the protein is missing at that moment. The body can wait for up to 3 days sometimes for the rite amino acids to come along to piece together the needed protein. Obviously you can't wait that long if you really need those enzymes and proteins asap but this is not the point. It has been shown tho that the gut is more set up to absorb proteins in di and tri peptide form and not so much in its free form.
     
    helen1 likes this.
  18. EMilo

    EMilo Elizabethmilo.com

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    Hi Plum, can you tell me, when you say you have only ever managed 1/2 tsp twice a day, is this because of side effects? Can you tell me what you have experienced that stopped you from increasing the dose? Thank you!
     
  19. EMilo

    EMilo Elizabethmilo.com

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    Oh, sorry, just saw this. Side effects = upset stomach, windy, achy....? Well, those are part of my usual life, anyway! I'd have to be pretty nauseous to stop taking something Rxed by my doc, so I'll see how it goes. Thanks again!
     

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