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Help Interpreting 23andMe Results

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by JPV, May 6, 2015.

  1. JPV

    JPV ɹǝqɯǝɯ ɹoıuǝs

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    I've never been able to determine whether I do or do not have issues with methylation.

    I've tried both Rich and Freddd's methylation protocols, several times over the years, with little measurable success. I don't know if it's an issue with missing cofactors, detox reactions or if it's just something that doesn't apply to me. I find that much of the information for this approach is so convoluted and scattered all over the forum that I basically gave up trying to figure it out.

    Currently, I've been following the "Unfolded Protein Response and A Possible Treatment for CFS" thread with great interest. I'd like to try the treatment proposed by @mariovitali but he mentions that methylation may be some sort of limiting factor so I'd like to rule this out before proceeding with his recommendations.

    I was wondering if anyone that was knowledgeable about methylation defects would be so kind as to look at my 23andMe results and let me know if it's something I should even bother to concern myself with...

    Genetic Genie Methylation Profile
    [​IMG]

    Genetic Genie Detox Profile
    [​IMG]

    Thanks.
     
  2. mariovitali

    mariovitali Senior Member

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    @JPV

    Thank you for your interest in Unfolded Protein Response-ER Stress Therapy. Unfortunately i don't understand what you mean by "Methylation being a limiting factor" so please let me explain here again, just to be on the safe side :

    There are several reasons for improper Protein Misfolding within the Endoplasmic Reticulum, some of them are the following :

    -HHcy (Hyperhomocysteinemia)
    -Impaired Calcium Homeostasis
    -Impaired Production of BH4 which leads to Phenylketonuria
    -Inhibition of N-Linked Glycosylation

    Methylation causes elevated Homocysteine, however there can be more causes for problems in Protein Misfolding and therefore this could be the reason for which you haven't seen many benefits with Fredd's/Rich's Protocols.

    FYI I also tried both Methylation support regimens and they made me feel better but weren't able to achieve a full remission of my problems as the regimen i propose did.For what its worth i am following Fredd's suggestion to use Adenosylcobalamin. Methylcobalamin would give me Brain Fog for some reason.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2015
  3. JPV

    JPV ɹǝqɯǝɯ ɹoıuǝs

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    Perhaps "limiting factor" was the wrong choice of words. I assumed that you meant that methylation defects would need to be addressed either before or while on the protocol that you are proposing...
    Looks like you have since edited the message for clarity.

    Either way, I'd love to get an opinion on my test results.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2015
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  4. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    I don't see anything exotic in those results. Looking at them, I should think a good quality B complex should suffice to support methylation. Do you have high homocysteine?
     
  5. JPV

    JPV ɹǝqɯǝɯ ɹoıuǝs

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    Thanks for looking at my test results.

    I've never taken a test to determine homocysteine levels and I'm not quite sure what the symptoms might be. I guess it's just one of those things that must have slipped past me.
     
  6. mariovitali

    mariovitali Senior Member

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    You are right and Thank you for pointing this out.

    What you want to do is to make sure that you deal with anything that creates ER Stress (Methylation problems, impaired BH4 Production), avoid agents that impair Proper Protein Folding capacity ( Statins, HSP70 inhibitors, DHT Inhibitors, etc) and use Supplements that limit ER Stress and help in Protein Folding (TUDCA, Selenium, Curcumin, HSP70 Induction) and you will have to take all of these actions at the same time.

    Interestingly, i searched for TUDCA on the Forum and it was never mentioned previously. However, there is one mention in Customer Reviews regarding CFS :

    http://www.amazon.com/review/RNV4VYPXS14PS
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2015
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  7. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    I don't think there are any specific symptoms for high homocysteine. But it could give you a broad idea whether you have methylation problems.
     
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  8. JPV

    JPV ɹǝqɯǝɯ ɹoıuǝs

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    Yeah, I had mentioned to @adreno that I hadn't seen much mention of Clostridium Butyric/Miyarisan as a potential treatment for ME/CFS anywhere on the internet. He felt that was a good thing because so few other known treatments have really shown that much promise.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2015
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  9. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

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    Never seen a methylation panel looking as clean as that, @JPV. One thing less to worry about.
     
    JPV likes this.
  10. mariovitali

    mariovitali Senior Member

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    @JPV

    Have you ever used :

    -Finasteride/Proscar ?
    -Nizoral?
    -Any P450 inhibitor in general?
    -Statins?

    How/When did you first experienced CFS?
     
  11. JPV

    JPV ɹǝqɯǝɯ ɹoıuǝs

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    Thanks, I would have thought with all the hetero results it might have meant something. It's good to hear otherwise.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2015
  12. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

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    You don't have the most important MTHFR C677T mutation so you don't need to worry about being hetero for A1298C. VDR hetero SNPs are just normal variation, blown out of all proportion by Yasko. COMT +/- is actually better than -/- (and of course +/+) in my opinion because it gives you a better balance between working memory (big component of intelligence) and anxiety/physiological arousal. Much of the other stuff on the panel is rubbish of no relevance. Hope this helps you avoid a pointless detour down the online SNP quackery rabbit hole.
     
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  13. JPV

    JPV ɹǝqɯǝɯ ɹoıuǝs

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    I will say that I bought some sulfate testing strips and my readings where off the charts. I've cut out some sulfur foods and brought it down in half, but still high. Maybe I don't need to worry about it.
     
  14. JPV

    JPV ɹǝqɯǝɯ ɹoıuǝs

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    I have not.
    I've had minor fatigue issues throughout my 20's. I had a lot of allergies so I assumed that they contributed to why I felt bad. The more severe symptoms didn't manifest until later in life.

    In my early 30's I started occasionally using methamphetamines. One evening, while using meth, I had a sudden onset of what I assumed were some sort of neurological problems. My skin felt as if it was burning all over my whole body. It was so severe that I wasn't sure that I'd have the ability to live with the pain for very long. This went on for about 6 months or so until it finally subsided a bit. This sudden onset seems to correlate to Jay Goldstein's theory that some sort of switch is flipped in the brain that throws the whole body out of balance.

    I now have mild and occasional burning, mostly in my legs, when symptoms flare. I also suffer from fatigue, brain fog, mental confusion, disrupted sleep cycle, tinnitus (started after an ear infection I had when I was young), depression, lack of motivation and numerous other health problems.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2015
  15. mariovitali

    mariovitali Senior Member

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    @JPV

    This might be the culprit (First study made in rats) :


    http://paperity.org/p/27549344/meth...lum-stress-related-gene-chop-gadd153-ddit3-in


    and also here :




    http://benthamscience.com/journal/abstracts.php?journalID=cn&articleID=73512
     
  16. JPV

    JPV ɹǝqɯǝɯ ɹoıuǝs

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    Thanks for sharing the research. Not sure how to interpret it though. I haven't done any drugs for years now so I wonder why the symptoms still perist. Does your theory of unfolded proteins factor into this in any way? Seems like there might be some overlap here.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2015
  17. mariovitali

    mariovitali Senior Member

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    @JPV

    Yes, because both papers discuss about induction of ER (Endoplasmic Reticulum) Stress from Methamphetamine. ER Stress is the common factor of our problems (in my theory).

    Regarding your permanent effects : It seems that our bodies fall into a vicious loop of ER Stress from which they cannot come out. My problems were triggered when i decided to stop Propecia for hair loss. See here : http://propeciahelp.com/overview

    90% of PERMANENT side effects from Propecia use are the same with CFS.

    Please Try the regimen i listed and share your results with us.


    EDIT : I added 'Methamphetamine' to the list of Substances that induce ER Stress to my original post.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2015
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  18. JPV

    JPV ɹǝqɯǝɯ ɹoıuǝs

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    So, I'm assuming you believe that I may have arrived at the same condition via a different trigger mechanism that disrupted much of the same biological processes.
    Will do. I have an ever changing regimen but 'm currently focusing on the probiotic Clostridium Butyric/Miyarisan which I feel is giving good results. I also take Yucca for Ammonia. Magnesium Threonate and L-Ornithine for excitotoxicity symptoms that I suspect stems from excess Glutamate. Low dose (300mcg) melatonin for sleep.

    I'd be interested to hear what you think of David Whitlock's theories regarding ME/CFS and Nitric Oxide...

    An Engineering Perspective on CFS – by Dave Whitlock

    It seem's to correlate to some of Jay Goldstein's experiments with Nitric Oxide...

    Dr Jay Goldstein's Instant Remission ME/CFS Treatments

    Whitlock has an interesting product called AOBiome that I'm interested in experimenting with. It's a probiotic body spray that is supposed to consume Ammonia while boosting Nitric Oxide...

    AO+Mist

    I wonder if any of this might relate to your theories of unfolded proteins.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2015
  19. mariovitali

    mariovitali Senior Member

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    @JPV

    I tried the following :

    -P450 induction
    -Nitric Oxide Induction through Nitrates Consumption
    -Methylation Support by Fredd/ and (late) Rich
    -HCG Injections
    -Thyroid Medication

    If you log in to propeciahelp.com and solvepfs.com and search for user 'mariovitali', all of my attempts are documented through the years. NOTHING worked even close to how i feel now. All of these attempts would have good results but these results wouldn't last.
     
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