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Help: Blood pressure TOO HIGH...

Discussion in 'Autonomic, Cardiovascular, and Respiratory' started by dannybex, Sep 8, 2009.

  1. CBS

    CBS Senior Member

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    Beta Blockers and Ace inhibitors


    Danny,

    The metoprolol (beta blocker) had absolutely nothing to do with the TIA's. I was on a very low dose (50 mg/day related to another issue effecting the heart that had recently been diagnosed) at the time the TIA's began. Metoprolol reduces my HR does nearly nothing to impact my BP (probably has a very minor effect from lowering HR).

    The TIA's and retinopathy, etc. were all due to BP and they ceased/reversed very quickly once we got my BP under control with the lisinopril (I was measuring my waking BP everyday and about 10 days after starting the lisinopril I woke up and had a reading of 120/75 - at the time the systolic was typically around 160ish apon waking). The TIA's stopped that day and six weeks later my retinas were nearly healed.

    Since starting on the lisinopril I have had some swings in HR but not BP. Why I needed 150 mg one day to keep my HR at 70 BPM and then the next day 150mg causes lopressor (metoprolol) over dose and my HR drops to 35-40 BPM is a mystery. My docs think its just part of the whole autonomic damage/dysfunction that arises from viral infection and I adjust my metoprolol accordingly.

    Best of Luck,

    Shane
     
  2. glenp

    glenp "and this too shall pass"

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    Other meds?

    Could any meds that you are on be causing it? When I went to cardiologist mine was so high that he wanted me on some meds right then, I declined and weaned myself off of effexor, next time I went in my bp was 77/44 -he thought his machine was malfunctioning. I bought my own cuff so can monitor myself now, it is now creeping back up. I didn't realize magnesium helps, I take a scoop of "magnesium glycinate" don't like to overdo it. I think it is a very good idea to get your own cuff so you can monitor yourself.

    glen
     
  3. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Freeze-Dried Calcium Magnesium

    Hi Shane,

    I've had a ridiculously low HR for most of my life. Resting rate would sometimes be as low as the low 30s, but usually around 40 or so. More recently it's usually in the 50s. I used to think this low rate was a good thing, and reflected a really good cardiovascular capacity. I've since realized that it was probably low as a result of neurological aspects of my ME/CFS. I've rarely heard of others having a HR as low as you mention. I can certainly relate to it.

    Hi Dan,

    Sorry to hear about your dilemma. I might just make a quick mention of a freeze-dried calcium-magnesium powder I take. It works well for me because it gets absorbed into my muscles within minutes. I was wondering if means a lot of it doesn't go through the GI tract and perhaps avoid the D that you seem to be prone to. The company that distributes this powder is called "A to B Calm".

    Good luck at your doctor's appointments (these are some of the most stressful things I do). And good luck in finding a good solution for yourself. BTW, I was reading about transdermal magnesium on Carter Burke's thread, and feel I will likely give this a try at some point. My motto: Leave no stone unturned. Lots of stones with not much underneath them however. :)

    Wayne
     
  4. CBS

    CBS Senior Member

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    Low HR

    Hi Wayne,

    Before CFS I used to compete in long distance cycling and bike touring. Two hundred miles a day was not unheard of. I was still wearing my cycling shorts after a 60 mile weekend ride when I noticed a very large lymph nodes, 24 hours before my initial infectious episode started with a very high fever. I had a resting HR of 45-50 back then and it was a good thing.

    My doc and I recently joked that there was no way that a high level of fitness was causing my low HR (more erratic than low) today.
     
  5. susan

    susan Senior Member

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    stress eraser gadget

    Hi Danny,
    I bought a stress eraser to help lower my heart rate and BP but I did not like it. It taught me a breathing pattern but it ended up stressing me as when I failed at it I stressed more....(.you had to make little mountains) Another woman and I agreed upon this so stopped it. Now I just put the breathing CD on that I posted on this forum and I do that.
     
  6. liverock

    liverock Senior Member

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    Hi Maxine,

    The magnesium oil I tried was Magnesium Chloride from bronzeagenutrition which is said to be a very highly absorbable type of Magnesium Chloride obtained from under the North Sea.

    http://www.bronzeagenutrition.com/product.php?id=13

    I also tried using magnesium sulphate in my bathwater as well, but neither did very much for my BP.

    The CoQ10 dosage I used was 400mg per day softgels which I still take BTW as it strengthens the heart.

    I think its particularly important that CoQ10 is taken in the softgel, as its better absorbed when taken with the oil in the softgel.
     
  7. Victoria

    Victoria Senior Member

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    Brilliant suggestion L......

    Brilliant suggestion.

    I had to buy a BP machine some years ago & at that time, on regular daily reads over a period of 4 months, it was always stress (work) or eating too much or some other weird reason.

    Fortunately I was able to claim 80% on my Private Health Insurance (on a letter from my GP saying I needed one). 80% refund on $175 made it worth buying the latest digital one at that time. I've got another up todate BP machine last year - same 80% back.

    I am currently on Avapro HRT 300. 2 years ago Amlodopine was prescribed at well. But my ankles became so swollen (like a sprained ankle) I eventually couldn't walk or tie up my walking shoe laces, so this was discontinued & now it's only the Avapro HCT 300. (orginally started on Avapro 15O - just half & tab, & built it up over some weeks as I am sensitive to most drugs in some way or another).

    But with some practice, I found a deep breathing exercise for 5 minutes drops mine up to 40 points (in a quite room at home - doesn't work in my stressful job).

    To be honest, I think MY high BP would mostly rectify itself with leaving this job & getting more peace & relaxation in my weekday.

    (I do take pure Salmon oil capsules, & various other supplements, but this deep breathing exercise works almost every time at home).

    I've also cut out all dramas & action movies on the TV. I discovered watching tense dramas raised my BP at the end of the viewing time :eek:.

    But do invest in a BP machine & take your pressure morning, noon & night & record your pulse rate & exactly what you were doing around that time (eg stressed going to a new Dr or test?).

    A particularly severe bout of pain also raises my BP.

    High BP is a silent killer - most people don't know that have it.

    Normal should be about 120/80 (with a pulse of 60-70). An older person might have 140/80. Mine has been as high as 220/110 during a Thallium heart test - Geez, I thought I was going to die that day.

    I might have 160/80 at the Dr's office - it's called "white coat syndrome". My Cardiologist took it at the beginning of a check up & at the end. It was markedly lower by the time we had finished talking at the end of the consultation.

    But with practice I can get 160/80 down to 120/80 (or even 110/80), sith some relaxation & deep breathing exercises.

    Low BP can also be an issue, but everyone is different.
     
  8. Hysterical Woman

    Hysterical Woman Senior Member

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    Liverock

    Hi Liverock,

    Thanks for providing information about what you have taken - it helps everybody when you share your experiences. The bronze age magnesium chloride looks great - a shame that it didn't help your blood pressure. The help I got for my blood pressure was actually from magnesium glycinate tablets. The magnesium oil I use does help to relax my muscles even more and helps me sleep but I don't know if it is helping decrease my blood pressure even more. I used to check my pressure at the grocery and drug stores, but both have removed their machines. There seems to be a lot of that - stores removing their blood pressure machines - at least around here. Anyone else have that problem?

    And thanks for the tip about the softgel CoQ10 - good information.

    Take care,

    Maxine
     
  9. liverock

    liverock Senior Member

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    Danny,

    People with diabetes insipidus usually have low potassium and high sodium electrolyte levels which can cause high BP. It probably would be better having this checked first as using an ACE inhibitor would just be masking the cause of the high BP.

    ACE inhibitors are basically strong anti-inflammatories and Tumor Necrosis Factor(TNF) inhibitors, which in most cases means that for some reason these inflammatory cytokines have shot up and this raises the BP.

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...serid=10&md5=a80b9e9aa3fd190e9494531bb909f658

    In my case there is no mystery about this as it came on after a period when I felt almost 'normal':rolleyes:

    I have found these are the most dangerous periods for me, because after long periods of fatigue to suddenly feel 'I'm Back!', causes me to lose all sense of pacing and the need for supplementation etc.

    I foolishly decided to try to help a plumber friend with the installation of a new kitchen, which eventually needless to say, dumped me back to square one with the added high BP as a bonus.

    Whether the high BP is caused by lack of pacing or is hormonal, I think we have to face the fact that our hearts have taken a beating with the original onset of CFS and subsequently. Peckerman et al conclusively showed that PWC's have a lowered heart output and we need to bear this in mind.

    Dr Cheney had his heart transplant due to high BP over many years. I think its something we should all be checking regularly ourselves and not just at the doctors office.


    .
     
  10. CBS

    CBS Senior Member

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    Diabetes Insipidus

    I just posted a detailed description of my experience with/thoughts on DI here it is in its entirety:

     
  11. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    It was magnesium chloride.
     
  12. Hysterical Woman

    Hysterical Woman Senior Member

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    Thanks Dreambirdie


    Was it in a cream, magnesium "oil", or magnesium "gel"?
     
  13. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    I used both the oil and the gel.
     
  14. Hysterical Woman

    Hysterical Woman Senior Member

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    Thank You....
     
  15. susan

    susan Senior Member

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    DI

    Comebackshane,
    Thanks so much for your long detailed explanation of DI. I have a friend who is struggling with this at the moment and her GP knows nothing about this. I will show her this article.

    Thanks
    Susan
     
  16. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Hi Liverock,

    Interesting you should mention yours came on during a period of when you felt 'almost normal'. I was feeling 'better' in November...wasn't so cold, was able to do a little more...but in hindsight, perhaps I was warmer overall, because my BP was increasing, diet was too 'heating', too fatty. And then by Dec 3, eyes/sinsuses, etc., very dried out (face had been dry for months)........and here we are.

    (I can also totally relate to the sense that one doesn't need to pace oneself when they're feeling better...when we should of course be doing just that. I've been overdoing it for years...would love to rest more, but can't always, as I do everything for myself...at least 95% of the time.)

    I've had a few hair mineral analysis' done...and each time my potassium is high, and my sodium very low. So I'm guessing that means I'm getting rid of (or not holding on to) potassium, and retaining sodium? Just guessing, but I know that standard blood tests in the past have shown that everything's "okay". Except that bad cholesterol was getting too high.

    Anyway, I'll mention this all to the doc today, thanks.

    Interesting info I turned up last night about vitamin d deficiency and high blood pressure -- quite a few studies on the vitamindcouncil site. Apparently it works like a natural ace inhibitor, if my rotten brain servers me correctly.

    THANKS TO ALL FOR THEIR SUGGESTIONS AND INPUT, I'm very humbled and appreciative...but I've got to stop now, and make lunch (early for me) as I have the appt at 2:15.

    Best regards,

    Dan

    p.s. I should note too, that I'm very skinny: 6' 2", and about 160-162 lbs. Anyone else with weird/high BP and thin?
     
  17. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    Hey Dan--

    I just had another thought. :eek::eek::eek: Watch out!

    My TCM guy, who works a lot with CFS and MCS and other chronic infectious diseases once told me that HEAVY METALS can cause high BP, along with a myriad of other symptoms. This goes along with some of experiences I have read on the B12 thread, regarding healing the methylation block, which according to Rich can cause the release of heavy metals.

    You might want to check and see if you are toxic with the heavy metals. I did a poop test for them, which I was able to order myself through these guys:http://www.detoxamin.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=75

    I had MEGA amounts of THALLIUM show up, which was released during my experimentation with Freddd's protocol. It gave me palpitations and arrhythmia, tho no high BP.

    Check it out.
     
  18. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    wow.... How did all the RED happen on this thread.

    Is that through sheer effort or some gimmick that selects the words that you want highlighted in red for you?
     
  19. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    BP update...

    I finally made it to the docs yesterday. Naturally was tensed up at the appt, as despite my best efforts, some little voice inside me was sure the BP would be even higher. Fortunately it was a little lower...158/80 when the nurse checked it, and then 20 minutes later when the doc checked it, it was 148/88.

    So, still too high, but a definite improvement over 170/89. And I guess it suggests in part that it is stress related, but also probably diet related. My bad cholesterol was too high when last checked (a year and a half ago already!), and the good cholesterol was too low. So will be working on ways to balance that, as I had stopped some EFA's in the last 6+ months.

    I have to go in early tomorrow morning (ugh) for a fasting blood draw to recheck cholesterol, etc., and also vitamin D. I've been bad about taking any lately, maybe 1,000iu's twice a week(?) and we certainly don't get much here in Seattle, even in the summer. :)

    I want to thank everyone for their kind replies, and the amount of helpful information -- certainly shows we're all different and all have different causes for various symptoms. (Thanks Dreambirdie for the info on heavy metals...that may be a factor...I was taking the b12 off and on, and was on high coq10, until Saturday).

    Also thanks again to Shane for the diabetes insipidus info. I can't imagine I drink that much water, or lose that much, and certainly can't stand cold water, so hopefully that's not the issue.

    Thanks so much,

    Dan
     
  20. glenp

    glenp "and this too shall pass"

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    Double Whammy

    I think that if your cholestol is off, it might be wise not to leave it as long. Apparently my cholestrol is ok. I was checking my pressure regulary and got it down, then noticed my rate was up, it was 195, I got so scared I stopped checking it. I also need to get back at it. I do take a baby aspirin every day. I wonder what Dr. Cheney was doing about his blood pressure when it was up for 10 years? I noticed someone said hbp can cause dry eyes, I hadnt realized that, I didn't realize that there were any signs. It is very important that we keep track OURSELVES. I was on effexor when my bp first went up, when I weaned off my bp went back down to low.

    glen
     

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