Invest in ME Conference 12: First Class in Every Way
OverTheHills wraps up our series of articles on this year's 12th Invest in ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London with some reflections on her experience as a patient attending the conference for the first time.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Heavy Metals poisoning, Autism and detox

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Toxed, Sep 30, 2015.

  1. Toxed

    Toxed Certified in Environmental Medicine, ATSDR

    Messages:
    120
    Likes:
    229
    Oregon
    This post was originally in the following thread: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...al-with-mess-clutter.40160/page-2#post-646020

    My Environmental Illness specialist IS an autism specialist. He ordered the test. He gave me the results I shared. I began studying Autism because of what he said. I noticed my husband had asperger's traits, so I started specifically studying Aspergers and recognized myself. My EI has, after much more follow up, given me the aspergers diagnosis. I was only relaying how I figured out I had aspergers, not how one typically gets clinically diagnosed.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 2, 2015
  2. Tammy

    Tammy Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,070
    Likes:
    1,401
    New Mexico
    @Toxed............sorry if you might have already mentioned this in other posts but have you made any connection between the toxic exposure and autism? Also, I am just wondering if pesticides contain metals besides all the other crap. .... I'm just curious if you were ever tested for metals? I know metal testing can be controversial.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2015
  3. Toxed

    Toxed Certified in Environmental Medicine, ATSDR

    Messages:
    120
    Likes:
    229
    Oregon
    @Tammy yep. Autism is a Toxic Injury. Lots of people are running around trying to link it to this "one" thing, or That "one" thing, but its not just one thing! Its too much of any, or too much of any combination, of toxic things. But, its not just the environmental, you have to figure in the genetic variances. I'm sure someone is thinking I'm ape crap crazy right about now, so let me share some of my footsteps...

    When Dr. Smith told me about those nitrotyrosine results I went digging. I ran search engines on "toxins" and " austism" together. I stumbled, by the grace of God, onto a brilliant researcher by the name of Karen Slimak. She was running trials with autistic kids and adults that involved dietary and environmental toxins. In her research she found that it was necessary to eliminate ALL toxins. In fact she noticed that the kids were addicted to them. When the team removed all the known toxins they discovered that the kids exhibited some strange behaviors. They would sniff laundry. Upon investigation they found residual laundry product fragrances, saliva, or urine. The latter two were from the kids and offgassing the toxins resolving from their bodies. They removed all those type of sources. The kids would then put their heads under their clothes or blankets and huff their own breath to get at the toxins that were resolving from their lungs. They also had kids that would stand with their noses to cracks in the door, next to the windows or along the walls. They were huffing the toxins moving around the walls from the outside. When they sealed those up and detoxed the kids, ALL, even the most severely autistic kids returned to nearly normal mental and physical health. They returned to memory/learning at the point before they first became afflicted. She ran her trials for 30+ years, and helped hundreds of kids. Why haven't most people heard about it? There's no money in it.

    I had so much brain damage at the time of receiving that diagnosis that I could barely string 3 words together. I could still read. I couldn't communicate by talking. Many times I couldn't get out of bed at all; I was almost a vegetable. When I could move I would force myself to the computer. I lay with my head on the table next to the computer (sick and drooling) and could barely function to type (one finger, lots of errors) or move the mouse. People were saying you couldn't recover from brain damage. I knew in my heart they were wrong! So I went looking for answers. ALL means ALL. Not many people are willing to do it. Remember the addicted part? Lots of people who are well, are addicted to their toxins. Thats part of what led me to become an expert on toxins, and where they hide. I didn't want to live in that place. I was dying. I am now living.

    I want to add something about being very nearly a vegetable. I heard everything that was said in my presence. I knew it inside my head, even though my body did not respond. I saw the disgust on peoples faces, I felt all my normal emotions even though I was trapped in there. Time did not exist. One minute was the same as a day. It was a very hard place. If you know someone who's had stroke, they are still there! Just trapped in that body. If you remove all the toxins, they have a chance to get better.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2015
    Christopher, Wayne and brenda like this.
  4. Toxed

    Toxed Certified in Environmental Medicine, ATSDR

    Messages:
    120
    Likes:
    229
    Oregon
    @Tammy Sorry I forgot the heavy metals part. O yeah! :eek: When you look at a pesticide label you will see that the active ingredients only comprise a percentage of the formula. The rest is "inert ingredients." You can go to my webpage theholisticchatterbox.com/library and scroll down to "Inert is Not Non-Toxic" for cited material. But bottom line, the EPA has a list of chemicals that are allowed to be listed under "inert." Many of them are hugely toxic. Many are heavy metals. Not just that but heavy metals are both by-products and contaminants of pesticide production. These by-products are then allowed as filler in many products, especially fertilizer. Synthetic fertilizer is not "non-toxic!" Add to that the adjuvants. For instance,mAluminum, is used as a tank adjuvant for glyphosate applications in areas of alkaline soil... The list goes on and on. I've probably already told you more than you want to know. I'll stop now, until you have more questions. :D
     
  5. Toxed

    Toxed Certified in Environmental Medicine, ATSDR

    Messages:
    120
    Likes:
    229
    Oregon
    @Tammy there isn't a one size fits all answer. Because everybody's metabolism, their poisoning, and their environment is different, different things work better for different people. With that caveat, here are some things to consider:

    heavy metals sequester (hide) in fatty tissues (like brain tissue) They often don't show up on tests. I'm not a fan of provocation tests, if the substance used in the provocation is just more of the same... EDTA chelates ALL minerals, not just the heavy metals. It favors calcium. I'm not in favor of it.o_O I tend to be very conservative. I avoid stuff with side effects. So I don't use it except for occasions when I accidentally get petroleum on my hands (3rd hand exposure). I have a bar of EDTA soap. I rewash with my regular soap after.

    Moving on, the body is designed to eliminate toxins. The single most important thing is to stop putting them in, and nourish the body for optimal performance.

    Clean, unadulterated animal fat is essential for capturing excreted toxins, and replacing unhealthy brain tissue. The brain is made up of mostly fat cells. Our lymph systems collect the discarded toxic waste and eventually dump it into the bowel. There needs to be large molecule, undigested fat there to trap the toxins and safely move them out of the body. If there isn't, the toxins reabsorb through the intestinal walls. Organic, Raw whole milk, butter and cream are excellent for this. No homoginized! Interior fat from organic grass fed meat.

    Not cover fat. Cover fat (often used as suet in ground beef!) is the first place even animal bodies send toxins for storage. It is essential to eat a high fat diet if you are losing weight. When you burn off cover fat, you dump toxins. So eat that cream and butter to get them safely out. Also, its necessary to eat fat to burn fat. Organic, free range eggs have healthy fats, vitamins and nutrients!

    Next Using milk thistle, and or burdock root are great detoxers. Burdock does grab heavy metals but some people can't use it.

    Different enemas are also effective, as heavy metals can be sequestered in the lumen (intestinal lining), coffee, magnesium.

    Epsom salt baths work too.

    I also did the biofilm protocal because thats another place heavy metals can hide. As you can see,

    I use a varied approach. Go slow and gentle. You're freeing up the toxins to get them out so they can cause additional harm. Keep antioxidant levels up when you do this. :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2015
    Wayne, brenda, ahmo and 3 others like this.
  6. Toxed

    Toxed Certified in Environmental Medicine, ATSDR

    Messages:
    120
    Likes:
    229
    Oregon
    I forgot, get mercury amalgams removed by an Hg-free, biocompatible dentist.
     
  7. Tammy

    Tammy Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,070
    Likes:
    1,401
    New Mexico
    One time when I was using a lot of burdock.root.......I remember I kept smelling a skunk and I thought one must have died some where near where I lived............but ended up it was Me.....lol! I smelled like skunk for two weeks! Detoxing? I hadn't gone out in public thank god. Thank you for all the info..................I would like to add to your list Spirulina for metals.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2015
    xrayspex and Toxed like this.
  8. Tammy

    Tammy Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,070
    Likes:
    1,401
    New Mexico
    I forgot to mention I think my Dad got A.L.S. from pesticide poisoning.......I really do.
     
    Toxed and Gondwanaland like this.
  9. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,563
    Likes:
    3,556
    @Toxed interesting info. Would you please break your text into shorter paragraphs (easier to read), thanks!
     
    Toxed likes this.
  10. Toxed

    Toxed Certified in Environmental Medicine, ATSDR

    Messages:
    120
    Likes:
    229
    Oregon
    :jaw-drop: Me too! ...Good one! I've also used chlorella. I just forgot, I can't take caps anymore because of the achalasia. Those two taste awful!!:depressed:
     
  11. Toxed

    Toxed Certified in Environmental Medicine, ATSDR

    Messages:
    120
    Likes:
    229
    Oregon
    There are research papers that back that up.
     
  12. Toxed

    Toxed Certified in Environmental Medicine, ATSDR

    Messages:
    120
    Likes:
    229
    Oregon
    B
    Better? :redface:
     
    Gondwanaland likes this.
  13. Kina

    Kina

    Messages:
    10,131
    Likes:
    17,218
    Sofa, UK
    This paragraph seems to contain misinformation that current scientific knowledge does not support.

    What toxins/toxic waste are you referring to?

    The lymph system doesn't work in this manner. The lymph system is made up of a network of vessels and lymph nodes. The lymph vessels put excess fluid collected from all over the body back into the blood circulation. Along the way, the fluid is forced through lymph nodes for filtration. Harmful organisms are trapped and destroyed by lymphocytes in the nodes.

    The liver effectively breaks down 'toxins' into harmless chemicals. The kidneys also work as a filtration system.

    As far as fat goes, unless you have some kind of malabsorption syndrome, it doesn't end up in the bowel undigested to trap 'toxins'.

    What does autism (re the title of the thread) have to do with this? Study after study has failed to find evidence that elevated mercury or heavy metal levels has any relationship to autism.
     
    IreneF, Mij, Valentijn and 3 others like this.
  14. Tammy

    Tammy Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,070
    Likes:
    1,401
    New Mexico
    There are studies out there failing to find evidence but there are also studies that do in fact see a correlation with heavy metals in autism.
     
    Violeta, Wayne and Toxed like this.
  15. Toxed

    Toxed Certified in Environmental Medicine, ATSDR

    Messages:
    120
    Likes:
    229
    Oregon
    @Kina the title contains "Autism" because this post is a continuation of a discussion that went off topic on the 'mess/clutter' thread. I asked a moderator to move those posts here. I figure they'll get around to it when they are able. No hurries.

    Yes, this paragraph may "seem" to contain misinformation to someone who was unaware of these facts. I suffered extreme lymphodema and lymphodenopathy following an exposure to 2,4-D. Are you aware that 2,4-D causes non-Hodgkin's lymphoma? In less than 2 weeks I expanded 5 dress sizes (14-24). I felt like the blueberry gum chewing girl on Willie Wonka! I became so impacted everywhere on my body that I couldn't bend. It was horrible. Obviously, I had to study my brains out to figure out how to save myself from yet another horrific, torturous and bizarre problem.

    A lot of what I say is going to 'seem' incorrect to conventional, allopathic medical practice because most of that system's healthcare workers haven't studied the specific things I have, nor to the depth I have. My mom has her BS in nursing, and has worked as a director of a State public health dept. I'm well aware of the limitations of general studies.

    Yes, there are vessels and nodes, there is also a network of tiny capillaries that infiltrate every part of your body. For instance, Lymph fluid is pumped into an area where there is damage. You notice it as swelling. One of the purposes is to carry away the cellular waste and toxins.

    Citation: "it sic [lymph] plays critical roles in immune defence and in metabolic maintenance. Indeed, it functions as an interface between our body and the environment. It is a pre-eminent player in the body’s response to pathogens and acts as the physical basis of the immune system by providing conduits and lymph nodes for the presentation of potentially harmful antigens from the environment to immune cells, leading to recognition and initiation of an immune response. It is important for energy storage and metabolic functions, most notably by supplying a route for ingested lipids to be absorbed, stored and metabolized. Finally, it serves as a collective ‘garbage dump’, where dead cells, bacteria, poisons, toxins and excess fluids are deposited from bodily tissues. Subsequently, it indirectly delivers these substances via the blood to the organs of detoxification including the liver, kidneys, skin, lungs and large colon for eventual elimination." (Bold italics mine)
    From
    Review article: lymphatic system and associated adipose tissue in the development of inflammatory bowel disease
    P.-Y. Von Der Weid and K. J. Rainey, DOI: 10.1111/j.1365-2036.2010.04407.x
    Alimentary Pharmacology & Therapeutics
    Volume 32, Issue 6, pages 697–711, September 2010"


    Lymphadenopathy is where there are so many toxins, un-broken down by cellular glutathione (in my case because of severe glutathione deficiency) that the lymph system becomes congested and impacted.

    A healthy, normally functioning liver uses glutathione (made in every cell in the body, and the excess is stored in the liver) to breakdown toxins. Those toxins, and some of the other water soluble impurities are then removed via the route through the kidneys. BUT thats not the only way the body removes toxin. Toxins are also removed via lymph dump to the bowels. (see citation above) Or else, practically speaking, what would be the point of doctors doing stool sampling for toxins?!! Lymph also removes toxins through the skin via sweat.

    Yes fat traps toxins.

    Citation: "Lipophilic toxins have been introduced into the environment both as functional compounds, such as pesticides, and as industrial waste from incineration or the manufacture of electrical transformer components. Among these substances are compounds that are carcinogenic and that affect the endocrine system. Accidental high exposures of humans to some lipophilic toxins have produced overt disease symptoms including chloracne and altered liver function. These toxic materials have been the recent focus of international effort to reduce or eliminate classes of halogenated hydrocarbons from the environment. Evidence of the widespread distribution of lipophilic toxins in the biosphere has been obtained by analyses of human tissues and human milk. The principal route of entry of lipophilic toxins into humans is through the food chain, and most of them are stored in adipose tissue. A common route of excretion is in bile, but there is also evidence of nonbiliary excretion into the intestine. Enterohepatic circulation of many of these compounds slows their removal from the body. Substances that interrupt the enterohepatic circulation of compounds that enter the intestine by the biliary and nonbiliary routes increase the rate of their removal from the body and reduce their storage half-lives. Reduction in body fat, along with these dietary substances that interrupt enterohepatic circulation, further enhances the excretion rate. Areas for further research include optimizing regimens for body burden reductions, understanding the nature of nonbiliary excretion, and following the effects of tissue redistribution during loss of body fat."
    Lipids, December 2001, Volume 36, Issue 12, pp 1289-1305
    Factors affecting the storage and excretion of toxic lipophilic xenobiotics, Ronald J. Jandacek, Patrick Tso,

    And, this link to an article where various oils are used orally in livestock care to trap lipophilic toxins http://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/jf00109a022

    Yes large molecules (not all, just large ones) of fat are too big to pass through the intestinal walls. Evidenced when your poop is orange-ish and floats...
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2015
    Wayne, brenda and ahmo like this.
  16. Toxed

    Toxed Certified in Environmental Medicine, ATSDR

    Messages:
    120
    Likes:
    229
    Oregon
    Medical Hypotheses
    April 2001, Vol.56(4):462–471, doi:10.1054/mehy.2000.1281

    Autism: a novel form of mercury poisoning
    S. Bernard, A. Enayati, L. Redwood, H. Roger, T. Binstock

    And

    Mercury, Lead, and Zinc in Baby Teeth of Children with Autism Versus Controls

    James B. Adams , Jane Romdalvik , V. M. Sadagopa Ramanujam and Marvin S. Legator
    a Chemical and Materials Engineering, Arizona State University , Tempe, Arizona, USA b Department of Preventive Medicine and Community Health , University of Texas Medical Branch , Galveston, Texas, USA
    Journal of Toxicology and Environmental Health, Part A
    Volume 70, Issue 12, 2007, pages 1046- 1051
    Published online: 09 May 2007
    DOI: 10.1080/15287390601172080

    This study determined the level of mercury, lead, and zinc in baby teeth of children with autism spectrum disorder (n = 15, age 6.1 ± 2.2 yr) and typically developing children (n = 11, age = 7 ± 1.7 yr). Children with autism had significantly (2.1-fold) higher levels of mercury but similar levels of lead and similar levels of zinc. Children with autism also had significantly higher usage of oral antibiotics during their first 12 mo of life, and possibly higher usage of oral antibiotics during their first 36 mo of life. Baby teeth are a good measure of cumulative exposure to toxic metals during fetal development and early infancy, so this study suggests that children with autism had a higher body burden of mercury during fetal/infant development. Antibiotic use is known to almost completely inhibit excretion of mercury in rats due to alteration of gut flora. Thus, higher use of oral antiobiotics in the children with autism may have reduced their ability to excrete mercury, and hence may partially explain the higher level in baby teeth. Higher usage of oral antibiotics in infancy may also partially explain the high incidence of chronic gastrointestinal problems in individuals with autism.

    These are just two of the 14 thousand hits on one peer reviewed article search engine I use...
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2015
  17. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

    Messages:
    14,281
    Likes:
    45,812
    As the title of the journal implies, it's merely a hypothesis. Also paywalled, so if you want to prove something with it then you will need to quote the relevant portions here, along with the relevant data which is necessary to determine the credibility of their reasoning.

    With the miniscule sample sizes used (15 children with autism), I'm surprised there was any chance of getting a statistically significant result. But since the p-value is not listed in the abstract, and the article is paywalled, my guess would be that they used a ridiculously high p-value to get any results. Furthermore, actual amounts of mercury detected are not listed, so even if the increase is statistically significant, levels may still be normal or even lower than normal.

    I'd suggest using sources which we can all read. Titles and abstracts are grossly insufficient.
     
    IreneF likes this.
  18. Kina

    Kina

    Messages:
    10,131
    Likes:
    17,218
    Sofa, UK
    @Toxed

    Whatever horrendous health issues you have suffered doesn't change well entrenched science related to how the body works. What you went through must have been horrible but really it doesn't change scientific facts. There is an awful lot of pseudoscience out there related to toxin removal and some of it is downright crap. It's really hard for many to know what is the science and what is not.

    How far in depth do you think scientific researchers have studied the brain, how the brain functions, how the lymphatic system works. This is years and years and years of physiological, chemical, biological, anatomical research that is being added to all the time. With the advent of things like MRI's, spect scans, cat scans -- knowledge is being added and amended every day. So tell me where do you get your information from that negates what scientists -- not 'allopathic' medical practitioners have been researching and agreeing upon in many different countries. Most medical doctors don't have time to do research, they rely on the scientific knowledge produced by those who focus on research. Most doctors do have a good working knowledge of the scientific facts that have been discovered about the human body. They don't practice on the basis of unproven pseudoscience. I would fire any mainstream doctor who is ignorant of how the lymphatic system works -- eg, some of the information you have been providing. I have a Bachelor of Science Degree in Nursing and we studied all of the body systems in depth with the medical students. It was really difficult and more than a nurse would need to know but in a way helpful. So really are we all meant to throw out the years of knowledge accrued about the human body from all over the world and start believing some anonymous internet person who says they know more than the years of accrued research related to the lymphatic system.

    Perhaps you could provide some links to where you are getting your information from as some of your statements seem to fly in the face of accepted science.

    One of the purposes of the lymphatic system is to keep the body fluids in balance. I think we agree on that. You stated that the lympathic system dumps toxins into the bowel -- that doesn't seem right to me. Could you provide some links to this.

    Lymphadenopathy refers to the lymph nodes when they are abnormal in size, consistency or number. It basically means swollen or enlarged lymph nodes. It is usually caused by infection, malignancy or autoimmune diseases.

    What toxins are you referring to when you say toxins?

    Is your problem with glutathione and resulting lymph issues your only health problem. Where does this fit into ME/CFS?
     
    IreneF and Valentijn like this.
  19. Toxed

    Toxed Certified in Environmental Medicine, ATSDR

    Messages:
    120
    Likes:
    229
    Oregon
    @Kina, I already provided the citations
    You said,
    Exactly. What we once thought we knew, is now obsolete. See links of peer reviewed articles.

    And,
    I beg your pardon. I was told that all people with chronic conditions were welcome here... ? I was under the the impression that many of the people here were still struggling to get official diagnosis. Are they viewed as second class citizens here, as well?

    FYI, I developed CFS in 1983. It wasn't very well understood at the time and anyone who supported it was a whack-o. We've sure come a long way, thanks to the efforts of alternative practitioners allopathic practitioners and researchers, alike. In 1998 I received my first diagnosis of Fibromyalgia (and CFS) from a panel of MDs in varying specialties. In 2002 I received a second, confirming Fibro/CFS diagnosis from an eminent West Coast neurologist.

    My problems with glutathione "fit into the ME/CFS" paradigm because they are all related immuno-compromised conditions.

    Lymphadenopathy, like the other examples of more detailed science that I provided you, on the lymph system, is a lot more varied than what a cursory wikipedia or chacha definition reveals.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2015
  20. Kina

    Kina

    Messages:
    10,131
    Likes:
    17,218
    Sofa, UK
    I have moved the posts from the other thread.
     

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page