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Heavy metal detoxing

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by Lisa6235, Sep 21, 2013.

  1. stridor

    stridor Senior Member

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    You are unusual. Most people that I have "met" with ME/CFS are "turned in" on themselves and are always taking internal inventories and measurements of function. Because of this, they can give a more precise answer to a question regarding how a particular supplement or medication has affected them.
    Some people here are journaling their responses and everyone to the best of their ability try to separate supplement trials so that they know (to the best of their ability) what their response is.
    Each of us is an n=1 experiment. You seem to have a number of serious health problems and your journey is perhaps unique. I too, have not found a "kindred spirit" - someone who seems to be on the same path as me.
     
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  2. physicsstudent13

    physicsstudent13 Senior Member

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    by the way did you find significant improvement after EDTA or other chelation? I think the natto/serra 240k/4k a day and MRM cardio chelate seems to be working and my body is detoxing some substances. I hope it doesn't damage my kidneys.
     
  3. stridor

    stridor Senior Member

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    I divide my health issues into 2 segments. One is the effect of mercury including the role it plays in disturbing methylation. The second is related to this ME/CFS "switch" that was thrown when the amalgams were not removed safely.
    In terms of mercury symptoms I have improved significantly in all areas - most notably Bipolar Disorder is 100% gone. There has been an improvement in all my skin ailments, digestion and more (listed on one of the other discussions).
    The ME/CFS symptoms were not going to improve by chelation alone. MB12, mfolate and the recent addition of AdB12 has taken away the depression that many of us with ME face. My temperature is normal again. I have enough energy to function all day...but not to be active all day. My brain-fog has lessened but is still present.
    Any chelation protocol needs to address the mercury that is on the other side of the BBB. Particularly if one has psychiatric symptoms. EDTA does not cross the BBB. This is why I used ALA and the Cutler Protocol.
     
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  4. physicsstudent13

    physicsstudent13 Senior Member

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    thanks! so what were you improvements in brain fog and energy from? mainly the Cutler protocol or methyl b12, mfolate? I take regular vitamin B, different choline types, and EDTA, natto/serra.
     
  5. stridor

    stridor Senior Member

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    The improvement in brain-fog, energy and the low-grade depression that dogs many of us with ME, all improved with methylation. I made an error in judgment. I didn't have ME (maybe a bit) before I touched the amalgam fillings. Mercury triggered ME, and thyroid/adrenal problems. Because of this it seem like a no-brainer that I would just need to remove the mercury and everything would be fine again....It didn't work that way.
    After 100 rounds of chelation, during which the ME symptoms varied, I was in a bad spot again. I was sent home from work - brain-dead, couldn't stand and very depressed. I began to think that mercury "threw a switch" and that simply removing it was not going to get me well. I started the mB12 and mfolate and it was like someone turned on the lights. Genetically, my methylation system (and in particular the TCN2++) was a house of cards and mercury was a gust of wind.
     
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  6. physicsstudent13

    physicsstudent13 Senior Member

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    so you didn't take sam-E, s adenosy methionine at all? some people take alpha gpc and I'm still on the methylfolate. the phosphitadyl choline at high doses seems to help me. I'm also on ubiquinol and oral EDTA pills, 3.6/g/day and sometimes NAC
    GNC has a choline capsule with 1200mg now
     
  7. stridor

    stridor Senior Member

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    SAMe gave me the worst soul-sucking depression that I have ever had.....and I know depression, I had Bipolar for years.
    Ubiquinol I took in 2007 and it gave me extra energy followed by depression. Actually, this event gave me the courage to try to find a biochemical solution for my mental illness.
    NAC worked a bit for me for a while. Now it seems to make my symptoms worse. I will try it again later in the year.
    GPC - this was one ingredient in a supplement that cost me a fortune and gave me misfortune. I never tried it on its own.
    The only methionine I took was whatever was in the various protein products I tried.
    Now that the mercury is just about gone, I may try EDTA to help with blood pressure.
     
    Beyond likes this.
  8. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

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    I think Epsom salts trigger detox and are only good if you are in a stage of being able to bear it. Mag oil seems better in the sense that everyone that uses it says it helps with nervousness etc instead of creating more symptoms. What would be best though for supplementing, mag oil or pills? I would say mag oil since it increases DHEA!

    It is known between practicioners etc that SAMe can trigger suicidal depression in some patients. I wonder if something of that can be found in our genetic results. But also specific biochemical status (like mercury toxicity) that are not genetoc determine how we respond to supplements.
     
  9. stridor

    stridor Senior Member

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    Beyond
    Somewhere on this site there is supposed to be a reference (probably from Rich) that suggests that we should be getting at least some of our Mg supply topically. I also take Biglycinate and threonate forms that are supposed to absorb better but I'm not convinced. Not having a colon allows me to assess this in a rather direct way :)

    Funny that you should mention DHEA as the Dr and I had a funny conversation just an hour ago. He told me not to worry about it. I reminded him that I requested a level in July along with testosterone. He stared at the results a long time and then ordered both. Guess my level was low. I owe someone on this site a thank-you for suggesting that I get this level done...."thank-you, whoever you are."

    I wonder if low testosterone, DHEA or pregnenolone can contribute to fog...guess we are going to find out....

    The depression caused by SAMe is distinctly different from that caused by ME. The latter is a loss of interest, life has become colourless and SAMe is "I want to throw myself under a bus." But it sounds like you know that already.
     
    Beyond likes this.
  10. stridor

    stridor Senior Member

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    Beyond
    Somewhere on this site there is supposed to be a reference (probably from Rich) that suggests that we should be getting at least some of our Mg supply topically. I also take Biglycinate and threonate forms that are supposed to absorb better but I'm not convinced. Not having a colon allows me to assess this in a rather direct way :)

    Funny that you should mention DHEA as the Dr and I had a funny conversation just an hour ago. He told me not to worry about it. I reminded him that I requested a level in July along with testosterone. He stared at the results a long time and then ordered both. Guess my level was low. I owe someone on this site a thank-you for suggesting that I get this level done...."thank-you, whoever you are."

    I wonder if low testosterone, DHEA or pregnenolone can contribute to fog...guess we are going to find out....

    The depression caused by SAMe is distinctly different from that caused by ME. The latter is a loss of interest, life has become colourless and SAMe is "I want to throw myself under a bus." But it sounds like you know that already.
     
    catly likes this.
  11. Sparrowhawk

    Sparrowhawk Senior Member

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    This was my experience, epsom baths made me unable to sleep, but now I use mag oil topically every night and it helps me get to sleep and stay asleep.
     
    Beyond likes this.
  12. Ian

    Ian Senior Member

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    Putting mercury into peoples mouths must be eugenics. There is no other rational explanation as to why we are still using amalgam.
     
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  13. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

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    Like vaccines and fluoride in tap water? :eek: But shhh this is controversial and "paranoid", do not talk about it.
     
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  14. stridor

    stridor Senior Member

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    I think that the dam has broken. The World Health Organization and the US governments have taken a stand against mercury. Sweden and other countries took the lead. Keeping this stuff out of mouths is entering "Best Practice" - 180 years late, but WTH.
    We should only cremate bodies without fillings - or pull the teeth before and dispose of them correctly.

    History will not be kind to the medical and dental associations and their efforts to maintain the status quo. Some pretty unethical stuff went on there. Anyway, chalk one up for science.
     
  15. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Senior Member

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    Hi need a little help here!

    My CFS is mainly IBS based. I have tried for over 2 years to try and treat my yeast and bacterial overgrowth with elimination diets and just got know where. I felt like I was reacting to every food I reintroduced and essentially wasn't healing.

    Testing showed I had leaky gut, candida, SIBO and mild/mercury and organophosphate poisoning. Im aware now that its not just IBS...

    My questions are:

    Could it be something not functioning properly that is stopping me from healing on these diets?

    Heavy metals?
    Poor methylation cycle?

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    Jamie
     
  16. Sparrowhawk

    Sparrowhawk Senior Member

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    @Fogbuster I wish I knew enough to advise, but I'm still learning about this. I too have the IBS issue but not the SIBO as far as we've determined.

    I just received Andy Cutler's book Amalgam Illness in the mail today. I joined the two Yahoo discussion groups on the topic (Frequent Dose Chelation, and Adult Metal Chelation) and have been learning from just reading the post digests every few days.

    I am also looking into methylation but am taking that slow as I understand dipping the toe in the water there can lead to precipitous changes.

    Given your IBS you may also want to join the Facebook group on Fecal Microbiota Transplant -- still highly experimental but some people are seeing improvements for things like UC and C-Diff.

    Sprouted lentils recently really seemed to help reduce the IBS-D. The only other thing I changed was adding fish oil and topical Vit-D instead of oral supps. YMMV.

    Good luck.
     
  17. physicsstudent13

    physicsstudent13 Senior Member

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    so if I am taking EDTA 1 teaspoon a day from pure bulk is that going to help my circulation. will it damage my kidneys? stuff tastes kind of awful

    I think it may be the sam-E, NAC, choline derivatives that helped the most for brain fog. I took ACLAR before about 1000mg a day and it didn't do anything
     
  18. harris

    harris

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    Zeolite ?
     
  19. physicsstudent13

    physicsstudent13 Senior Member

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    for IBS I take glutamine and bentyl, protonix, probiotics. I've heard glucosamine helps?
    I wish the EDTA would help my circulation. can anyone confirm that it works in oral or IV form?
     
  20. stridor

    stridor Senior Member

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    @physicsstudent13
    EDTA has the potential to help with circulation. This seems to be particularly true for diabetics. The theory is that when given IV that it will pull calcium from the blood and then the body replaces that the easiest way possible and that is with the calcium that it pulls from plaque.

    Cutler warns that only people who know mercury is not a problem should try this as it combines with it to make something even more toxic and we don't want that.

    I am not a big fan of oral EDTA. It has the potential to remove minerals that are important for our recovery. I think someone found suppositories and I think that might make more sense for some people. I am not sure about those with established inflammatory bowel disease. brad
     

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