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Healthy food makes me worse...?

Discussion in 'Gastrointestinal and Urinary' started by MartinDH, Nov 29, 2017.

  1. MartinDH

    MartinDH Senior Member

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    Good to know I am not an alien... really interesting because I have always eaten many veggies and fruits... and suddenly after falling ill I don’t tolerate them...
     
  2. Wonkmonk

    Wonkmonk Senior Member

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    Same here and I think the reason is high potassium content. Most fruit and Veggies have high potassium, there are a few that have lower amounts, so switching to them might be worth trying (apples and blueberries for instance).

    Junk food is usually low potassium (meat, white bread, cheese etc. are all low potassium), though french fries are high.
     
  3. MartinDH

    MartinDH Senior Member

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    Interesting! I think I will switch on food low in potassium for a few days and then report...
     
  4. wonderoushope

    wonderoushope Senior Member

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    I can't say I see any major difference in energy when eating junk food, opposed to fruit and vegetables. But fruit and vegetables can cause me digestive issues, which probably slows down my body overall. I have intolerances and FODMAP issues with a lot of fruit, vegetables, legumes, meat, fish etc. Have you looked into intolerances? Fruit and vegetables might also be harder for your body to process due to the fibre content. I have food intolerance to natural glutamates (grapes, tomatoes, spinach, gai lan), but I also think I have issues with amines. I can't break down glutamates to well in my system. It doesn't even break down at all in my stomach, which must make it hard for my body.

    Oh my dietician suggested for me to eat more low Gi foods during the day, especially the morning. So I have lentils with some vegies for breakfast and I actually think that does help. Prior to that I was having rice noodles with vegies and a bit of protein and it didn't work as well.
     
  5. unicorn7

    unicorn7

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    That's interesting! I was a very, very unhealthy eater before I got ill, so I always thought it was just that I wasn't used to eating all those veggies:lol:
     
    MartinDH likes this.
  6. MartinDH

    MartinDH Senior Member

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    Don't think so... Lipkin has already found a shift in the microbiome of ME patients and there is a link to IBS...
     
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  7. unicorn7

    unicorn7

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    Yes, definitely. Does it always happen that a change in microbiome means that you can't tolerate veggies anymore?
     
  8. MartinDH

    MartinDH Senior Member

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    Depends on the shift I think. You have over 1000 different microbes in your gut... depending on what you're eating, there are more or less. If the shift brings an overgrow of bacteria that do not metabolise carbs and fibre than you will get probs with veggies, fruits, bread etc... The thing is: No one knows for sure which bacteria are "good"... the only thing we can say is, which bacteria are really "bad"=pathogens... But even with these it depends on the whole microbiome if they will cause harm... for example: Most people have helicobacter pylori.... and very new research comes to conclusion that it's part of the normal and healthy human microbiome. Same goes to clostridium difficile... some scientists think that we need a certain amount of them for a healthy immune system (Justin & Erica Sonnenburg from Stanford for example do).

    It's a very difficult topic. I think what caused the biggest harm for me was a round of ciprofloxacin a year ago...
     
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  9. Wonkmonk

    Wonkmonk Senior Member

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    Or try a lot of legumes (beans, lentils) plus potatoes (not cooked too long) for a few days without fruit plus veggies. If it also makes you worse, there is a good chance potassium is to blame.
     
    MartinDH likes this.
  10. Thinktank

    Thinktank Senior Member

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    How can potassium be blamed?

    I'd say that plant lectins can attribute to you feeling worse, especially if you're dealing with inflammation in the intestine or a "leaky gut".
    You could try to eat low lectin vegs for a while a see if that brings any relief.
     
    MartinDH likes this.
  11. Wonkmonk

    Wonkmonk Senior Member

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    My personal theory is that in the subgroup in which herpes virus infection is to blame (Dr Lerner's theory), high potassium leads to apotosis in infected cells and that causes symptoms to increase. The same is reported for high calcium or Vitamin D (which leads to high calcium). Both electrolytes are confirmed to play a role in apoptosis processes.

    Another theory says that ion channels don't work very well in many CFS patients and that electrolyte imbalances inside the cells cause cell dysfunction and therefore increases symptoms. There is a paper that says this, but it is not peer reviewed and provides only anecdotal evidence.

    Please note these are both unproven theories. There is no hard evidence for either of them, but they offer a possible explanation why many patients have problems with high calcium, Vitamin D and/or potassium intake.
     
  12. Learner1

    Learner1 Professional Patient

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    I doubt it.
     
  13. MartinDH

    MartinDH Senior Member

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    Well ok. But my gut is quite sure...
     
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  14. sb4

    sb4 Senior Member

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    I dont think fruits and vegetables are necessarily healthy. It would depend on context. You are German, correct? There is a decent chance you mitochondria would be more adapted to fat I think. Also your body pays attention to seasons. No fruits in Germany in december and only some veg. Perhaps its possible you could create a circadian mismatch if the light on your skin and eyes says its winter yet the light released by microbes in your gut (after breaking down carbs) says its summer.
     
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  15. pamojja

    pamojja Senior Member

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  16. ljimbo423

    ljimbo423 Senior Member

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    I agree that diet is a very powerful tool in gut health. How much or in what ways does dysbiosis alter what is good for the gut though? I don't think anybody really knows the answer to this. Any thoughts?

    Jim
     
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  17. JES

    JES Senior Member

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    I get the same response when I take a lot of antioxidant supplements like resveratrol or quercetin. These should theoretically be good for us but I start to feel a lot worse within a couple of days, as if my immune system was hampered more. I think it's the same with veggies although to less extent for me, whereas junk food promotes inflammation, and this inflammation can perhaps stimulate the immune system to work better against some pathogens. Antioxidants also reduce certain types of nitric oxide, which again are involved in the immune response.

    This is only my theory, but I never found a better explanation to why I react to antioxidants this way.
     
    MartinDH likes this.
  18. MartinDH

    MartinDH Senior Member

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    Alternatively: There is a thread on PR where some guys found the truth!!! ME is caused by a virus that the US military created to make us sick!!! I have always known it's the Americans...

    But what if it's a virus created by the US junk food industry to make us eat more burgers... Best explanation ...
     
  19. Timaca

    Timaca Senior Member

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    Some people are addicted to junk food, such that if they try to stop eating it, and eat fruits and vegetables, they actually can feel worse for a week or two. I once attended a workshop where some of the participants were going to start eating a Nutritarian diet (Dr. Fuhrman's plan) and he stated that this would happen to them. And indeed it did. So that is one possibility.

    Another thought is that you could be intolerant to certain food or food chemicals. That seems to be my problem. Most grains (except rice) give me headaches and joint pain. Ditto for nuts and seeds. Berries give me a headache (I suspect benzoates). Nightshades (except potatoes) seem iffy.

    I try to eat as healthfully as possible given my food intolerance issues. I feel my body needs as many nutrients as possible to heal. Processed foods do not supply many nutrients....

    Wishing you answers and a healthy diet! :)
     
  20. rebar

    rebar Senior Member

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    No, I started with probiotics but with limited success. Most do not populate and are totally eliminated within a day or two. I believe there are only a couple of probiotics that are human sourced and do populate. Mutaflor and Symbio-Flor 2 are the only ones I know of that do. With any start low and go slow, some as they displace the bad in your digestive system can exacerbate your ME symptoms, this happen to me, the good thing is it may be altering the biome in a more positive way and eventually lead to some symptom relief.
     

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