The 12th Invest in ME Research Conference June, 2017, Part 2
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Head clears when body fighting infection! Please help!

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by mason, Nov 17, 2014.

  1. mason

    mason

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    Hi

    I have recently been feeling extremely relaxed and happy! My brain fog has gone my vision has been sharper and my speech fluency and word recall has been very sharp.

    This happens for a few weeks maybe 2 or 3 times a year and the reason is that my body has been fighting an infection!

    What normally happens is I start to feel a sore throat coming on and the first day I feel pretty rough then on day 2 or 3 my head clears and I feel as I describe above. I start living my life again being more sociable and motivated to get things done. I can express myself verbally like never before and the constant brain fog and head pressure which I am so used to is completely gone. The sore throat or runny nose may remain but I feel great in myself.

    Then 2 or 3 weeks later I gradually start to feel like my old self again, depressed, inner anxiety, can't put sentences together very well and just feel like staying at home away from people.

    This is not a placebo or my imagination - the difference is night and day.

    I just don't know why this is happening and its so frustrating as I get a little taste of how my life could or should be like and then its taken away!
    The last couple of days I have felt myself slipping back to my normal state as the infection I had must be clearing

    Does anyone out there know whats going on here!?

    Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated
     
  2. sregan

    sregan Senior Member

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    Your immune system kicks up and the virus/bacteria or whatever goes into hiding or self preservation mode? Are you taking any different/new supplements during this time?
     
  3. mason

    mason

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    I have not been taking any supplements the last few weeks while I have been feeling so good. All my problems have completely gone so I feel no need to take anything. Infact I don't want to take anything that may take the good feeling away.

    I seem to able to get away with eating what I like and having less sleep as well.

    I almost want to catch as many colds as I can to keep feeling that way!
     
  4. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    Work in a school district and cease all hand washing, you will be exposed to more things then you could ever count lol. On a serious note hard to say what is going on exactly, this is definitely something interesting though and I hope more people with chime in for it.
     
    zzz likes this.
  5. lnester7

    lnester7 Seven

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    This is known to happen there is thread on getting better during a cold. I myself feel CFS free when In the rear occasions I get a cold (and my periods for that matter). So is not your imagination.

    I don't remember all the in and outs but we have observed the same (a few of us). When I come across the theread I will post (couldn't find it now)
     
    Countrygirl likes this.
  6. Adster

    Adster Senior Member

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    This happens to a number of us, including myself. There is a thread about it somewhere!
     
  7. mason

    mason

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    So im not the only one!

    I've tried searching but cant find a thread discussing this....

    Is there any way to keep this feeling going i.e mimick what the body is doing to make us feel so much better by taking supplements?
     
  8. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    Cortisol goes up during infections.
     
  9. mason

    mason

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    I did think about cortisol however I have taken 40mg per day in the past for adrenal fatigue but it didn't have the same effect on me.
     
  10. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    There is something called the fever effect that occurs in autism and ADHD: when these people have a fever from a cold, etc, their autism or ADHD symptoms can greatly improve.

    Since the fever condition is instigated and controlled by the locus coeruleus (LC) in the brain, the theory is that the fever effect might arise from the effects of activation of the LC.

    Note that the LC is found in the brainstem, and brainstem abnormalities have been found in ME/CFS. So LC activation may modulate brainstem activity, leading to symptomatic improvements.

    The LC is also the primary area for the brain synthesis of norepinephrine. So it's possible that some boost of norepinephrine might occur during fever. If so, then one might speculate that those ME/CFS patients who feel better during a cold might benefit from norepinephrine-boosting drugs, such as modafinil, Cymbalta and Wellbutrin.


    Similar thread found here:
    Improve when I get a virus? Ideas anyone?
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2014
  11. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    There is also a fever effect observed in normal people that it increases their IQ for a few days, at least for a high fever. Colds don't always have fevers, though, so we can't assume they are the same.

    Being my normal contrary self, I had a one-day fever last Tuesday, and it seemed to have the opposite effect: I have only vague memories of the couple of weeks before that, and what I do remember seems like it's months ago, even what I did the past Sunday. Anyone have this odd effect?
     
  12. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Perhaps it depends on the intensity of the fever. I have had considerable ADHD all my life (but did not know it, as ADHD was not widely known and diagnosed years ago). I have had some colds that were really stinkers, and noticed that my ability to absorb information was dramatically increased on the day I would come down with the cold. My ADHD was in complete remission during that day.

    This remission would quickly wear off however by the second and third day, and then I would be slightly worse than normal, presumably because the fever effect would be gone, and I'd just feel groggy from the cold.


    Though when I had just mild colds, I never noticed this improvement in ADHD; I only got the groggy feeling. So I presume with the stinker colds, there may have been higher levels of fever, and this is why I only got remission from ADHD when I had those rare stinkers.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2014
    Critterina likes this.
  13. South

    South Senior Member

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    I found some other Phx Rising threads related to this thread, links are at the end of this post.

    I'm also posting a link to a pdf discussing Th1 and Th2 immunity, which says that many common beliefs about Th1 and Th2 may be over simplified or flat out wrong. The same pdf lists some supplements (pg 238 or so of the pdf) that may change the ratio of Th1 to Th2 immune response. But I'm not wild about the info, since that same publication just finished saying many common beliefs about this are wrong, and didn't state why these supplements are more proven!

    The Th2 response is rumored to be allergies and autoimmunity. I know that when I have a flu or a cold, my brain fog disappears. Th1 taking over temporarily, and lowering my allergy response thus lowering brain fog?

    One of these threads starts with someone stating "I always feel about 50% better, sometimes more, with a virus" and asking about Th1/Th2:

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...2-shift-and-possible-drugs-to-alter-it.15835/

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/latest-th2-th1-right-to-left-immune-shifters.16066/

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...s-on-th2-to-th1-immunomodulators-in-cfs.8447/

    http://www.altmedrev.com/publications/8/3/223.pdf
     
    Critterina likes this.
  14. mason

    mason

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    So my immune system could be constantly Th2 dominant but when I have a virus or cold it switches to Th1 making me feel better.
    Are the drugs such as Imunovir a safe way to do this?

    Another idea - When we are sick the body produces TNF-Alpha which inhibits Methionine Synthase. This would then leave more Folate to produce BH4?
     
    Critterina likes this.
  15. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    Hip, I think you're idea has merit, for sure, but it doesn't explain my memory dimming. I don't generally have brain fog, and this could not be described as my normal groggy self.

    In fact, this fever put an end to a sinus infection that had been around for a week. And it had not been a particularly uncomfortable infection, no pressure, just a lot of mucus, mostly mornings, but being around me, all you would notice is that I lost my voice.

    Oh, well, a unified theory off fever effects is beyond me at the moment.
     
  16. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    One other thing of interest: on days when my ADHD is bad (and it became a lot worse since I developed ME/CFS), I find a long hot bath can work wonders to improve it. I am talking about a 2 hour hot bath (which I often take simply because I nearly always fall asleep in the bath).

    Sometimes if find it quite hard to read even simple articles or forum posts because of my ADHD; my mind cannot penetrate into the written text. But after a long hot bath, I find my reading ability is markedly improved.

    I presume the hot water is raising my body temperature, and thus perhaps creating an artificially-induced fever effect.

    So @mason it would be interesting to know whether long hot baths generate similar benefits for you (like reduced brain fog), like you get from catching a cold and a fever.
     
    Critterina likes this.
  17. Azrael

    Azrael

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    I was reading this page last week which discusses th1 and th2 unbalances maybe it can help you out in some way.

    http://www.healthy.co.nz/ailment/1159-anti-inflammatory.html

    I purchased glutathione just because of this to increase th1 response, still trying it out though. If anything im also th2 dominant and your temporary clarity during a cold is also something I have experienced, but that all ended a few years ago.

    Last years I have never ones getting a cold or infection, so I would assume my immune defence is whacked somehow.
     
  18. mason

    mason

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    Thanks for the link...

    Have you tried liposomal Glutathione?

    I have tried alot of the supplements mentioned on the page but never noticed any benefit, perhaps I need to take a few of them at once.

    I am thinking that I have some kind of chronic infection i.e candida which is being held at bay via TH2 response. This is then causing me adrenal problems and giving me brain fog etc..

    I have tried anti fungal diets and supplements in the past with little benefit
    I am now thinking perhaps something like GcMAF might be worth a try to kill off any infection I may have. I have had tests for bacteria fungus etc but nothing showed up however I do get symptoms i.e indigestion, itching, gas etc

    I feel like i'm going round in circles but surely if I feel so much better when sick then this avenue must be worth persuing?

    Also thinking of taking Low dose naltrexone but not sure if that is a Th1 stimulant or Th2? Is it worth combining GcMaf and LDN?
     
  19. Azrael

    Azrael

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    Hi Mason

    Sorry for the late comment.

    Nope never tried liposomal but been reading about it, so they are available as a cream and oral fluid and supposed to be more effective.

    I dont know everything but I do know what worked for me, a few years ago I cut back all caffein (everything) and all alcohol and it helped me tremendendeously in a way that I never really got any worse, so I kept it at bay. I was obviously still sick but I didnt have to get any medication or see doctors cause of a

    We are all different what works for me might not work for you, in my case I have also tried anti candida supplements, and that was just a few weeks back, it gave me negative symptoms with no positive. Which after stopping disappeared and more or less came back when I took another round.

    My stomach have always felt inflammated so I tried some stomach enzymes 2 months ago which are supposed to better absorb food and alike and that also gave me negative symptoms with no positive, so that didn't got me anywhere either.

    Last thing I tried out is glutathione from thursday last week, taking small doses 2-3 times per day and I can say something is happening both back and forth and not so bad that I would want to quit it and enough good to keep doing it.

    Im talking more about my glutathione experience here. Im going to update it soon with more info.

    Not sure about you, but I've done my gene testing on 23andme, it showed some "indications" that my stomach isnt good and as you know everything in life goes through our stomach, even love LOL.

    So when I stopped with caffein and alcohol it was all part of the plan cause I had to face one thing, it wasnt good for me.

    Is there some food or drinks that you are extra sensitive too ?

    I've done an amino acid test that showed I was a bit too low in a few specific ones but taking them through a supplement didnt really get me anywhere no pros nor cons.

    I knew nothing about GcMAF before you posted it so hard for me to say anything about it. Do you need a doctor to prescribe it ? It isnt available as a supplement?

    When you tried glutathione, what brands did you try and what happened ?

    Low dose naltrexone

    Never tried naltrexone but read it could be potent for some. But I did a search for you and looks like it could affect th1 and th2.

    http://www.elaine-moore.com/Article...ohnsandOtherAIDiseases/tabid/195/Default.aspx

    I wouldnt start with combining naltrexone and GcMaf instead test them one at a time first. If nothing bad comes out of it then maybe but I know too little about them.

    That's all for now.
     
  20. nimo

    nimo

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    I have a slightly different response - I feel better at the start and end of an infection, but worse during. So, say on a scale of 1 to 10 (1=worst,10=best) it might go something like this:

    Pre-infection = 6
    Days 1&2 = 8
    Days 3-10 = 4
    Days 11&12 = 8
    Post-infection = 6

    I suffer hay-fever from grass, and it often goes something like below:

    Pre-season = 6
    Days 1-3 = 8/9/10/11 (!)
    Rest of season* = 6
    Post-season = 6

    * I should add that I am on low-dose immunotherapy, and 'rest of season' above would be 4 without it.

    It isn't always 11. That year was amazing - I didn't feel ill at all for those 3 days, my brainfog was gone and my brain was working in a way it hadn't for over a decade. Needless to say, I wasn't happy when it went back to my current 'normal'.

    I've always wondered if there might be a Th1/Th2 link.

    I take Imunovir, and think I feel better on 2000mg pd compared to both 0g and 4000g.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2014

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