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HBOT vs oxyen generators and concentrators

Discussion in 'Alternative Therapies' started by knackers323, Jan 12, 2011.

  1. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    can anyone please explain the the amount of oxygen that is delivered between these options?
    I know the HBOT is at a slightly incresed pressure but would say an hour in the chamber be the equivelant to two hours on a mask with the generator?
    any help would be great as there is a huge difference in price. thanks
  2. L'engle

    L'engle moderate ME

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    I use an oxygen concentrator, but I have no idea how it compares to HBOT. I would say it helps me some. What kinds of prices are you looking at?
  3. ggingues

    ggingues $10 gift code at iHerb GAS343 of $40

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    HBOT chambers are wicked expensive! Ouch!! If anyone has info on this I would be interested also.

    GG
  4. Timaca

    Timaca Senior Member

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    I did 40 HBOT dives at a fairly deep level (don't remember exactly now). I had a lot of die-off (I believe I'm battling various pathogens), and I did see significant improvement. Those improvements didn't last once the dives stopped. They were expensive.
  5. pine108kell

    pine108kell Senior Member

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    This is an interesting question. My impression is that the elevated pressure with HBOT changes the manner in which oxygen is transfered throughout the body that cannot be replicated by just breathing oxygen, even for longer periods. However, considering the cost difference, it would be nice to know more about just breathing pure O2.

    mini-HBOT was the best therapy I ever had but can't find a way to continue because of cost.

    I think people have shyed away from HBOT for two reasons--1) excessive cost, 2) and because Dr. Cheney proposed that CFS patients are already oxygen toxic. On the other hand, he has also proposed many other things over the years, sometime contradictory. No one knows if he is correct, but my opinion is that it has prevented more acceptance of HBOT treatments for CFS/lyme, which I think is unfortunate.
  6. jenbooks

    jenbooks Guest

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    Hi knackers, there is no equivalency. It's not a matter of time but of pressure. The greater the pressure, the more 02 is absorbed into the plasma and tissues. You could breathe 02 for 10 hours without extra pressure and it wouldn't matter.

    HBOT is not as expensive as some of the $$ I see people spending around here on practitioners, esp Cheney, or Jam's post about spending $15,000 this year on GMA with no improvement.

    You can find solace (the small) used portable hyperbaric chambers on the web with 02 concentrator, for $5000. People sell them on ebay and craigslist. The chamber will be good for years, probably a decade or longer, before perhaps needing some repair, if you use it all the time.
  7. ggingues

    ggingues $10 gift code at iHerb GAS343 of $40

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    Could you provide a direct link to such a thing.:D I searched 1 time and did not have any luck on something less expensive! Seemed like 15k was the starting point.

    Thanks!:D

    GG
  8. anne_likes_red

    anne_likes_red Senior Member

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    Mine weren't expensive (this was 12 years ago, and in New Zealand), but like you my overall improvement didn't hold.
    However, I felt I detoxified a lot and at the time the short term results were kind of stunning :)
    I experienced no signs of toxicity...but I did taste chemicals coming out - from the detoxifying I believed.
    I slept 13 hours after some of my sessions - this after years of 5 - 6 hours sleep a night at best!
    I had to fly to another city for treatment (the flying was the expensive part!). I'd have more treatments if I didn't already have so much going on. I see it as a therapeutic I guess, more than a cure.
  9. jenbooks

    jenbooks Guest

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    Sorry I only just came back to this thread now.

    I just did a search for you.

    Here's a solace for $4395, obviously negotiable. It does not include the 02 concentrator from what i can see. Generally you can get a good used Integra o2 concentrator for about $800. You need an integra or better as you need 10 litres a minute.

    http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/hab/2192866639.html

    Solace 23" Hyperbaric Chamber. 7 Feet in length.
    Looks like new, perfectly functional.
    Was fully refurbished by the manufacturer in Dec. 2009. Originally built in 2001.
    Fits one person.
    Very comfortable, easy to put yourself inside.
    Includes foam bolsters, thick mattress, air compressor, hose, carrying case and tubing for optional oxygen concentrator.

    310-668-1868 x2
    Los Angeles Hyperbaric Wellness Center
    www.losangeleshyperbaric.com

    The same center is selling a larger one for $9000.

    These ads were placed just last week.

  10. pine108kell

    pine108kell Senior Member

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    Thanks for the info jenbooks. After years of paying for one-time treatments and then watching the doctor sell the chamber from underneath me, I finally purchased a used solaris for $3700.

    I should know more at this point, but do you need any special electrical outlets for the compressor or concentrator? I am afraid that by buying a second hand chamber I will have difficulty setting it up. I hope that is not the case.

    Is there a link to any information on how to maintain one of these, such as do you need to clean the air compressors, etc?
  11. jenbooks

    jenbooks Guest

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    That's a very good price.
    The air compressor is pretty self sufficient. I haven't had mine cleaned. On the other hand, I did have my integra opened to see if it needed cleaning, but it didn't. I do clean the filter there on the top.
    You don't need special outlets, just a normal three prong outlet.
    If you need help setting it up oxyhealth should be able to help you out if you give them a call.
  12. ggingues

    ggingues $10 gift code at iHerb GAS343 of $40

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    Thanks for the update Jenbooks, I didn't know you need a 10 LPM oxygen concentrator for use with a chamber!

    GG
  13. leaves

    leaves Senior Member

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    Jennbooks do you recommend a mild hbot or do you think those are less good? I've heard they are useless for Lyme etc?
  14. jenbooks

    jenbooks Guest

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    You need the best home 02 concentrator to get a decent flow rate of oxygen. Remember, the chamber when pressurized will slow the flow down anyway. And your mask will be leaky, so you'll lose 02 that way, also. And 02 concentrators are not 100%, at best around 80-90%. So, you need a good flow rate and a used Integra is a good buy and very reliable.

    Re: hardchamber vs softchamber for lyme. I didn't know about softchambers when I did the hardchamber. There is no comparison, the hardchamber goes to a much deeper pressure, gets a lot more 02 into the tissues, and is 100% 02. On the other hand, you can't do hardchambers forever. I don't think it would be healthy to have that much 02 all the time. And it's exorbitant. I mean, theoretically, you could purchase a hardchamber for home for $50,000 and some folks have.

    But anyway, if I knew then what I knew now, I'd do 2-3 months in a hardchamber, really getting the lyme way down (and it does--there have been experiments in guinea pigs where they built little hardchambers for them, and it did make all the spirochetes go latent. But within 3 months they were back). And there's the rub. So then I'd switch to softchamber at home to keep the "terrain" hostile to the buggies.

    But it seems some respond really well to hbot and others not so much. Those others, perhaps their issues are more viral. In any case, I always recommend a trial if you can, at a doc's, to be sure you're a responder. If you are, a trusty used home chamber can be one of the best tools for healing.
  15. pine108kell

    pine108kell Senior Member

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    When I called about getting an oxygen concentrator for my solace, the rep at oxygenplus was concerned that the outflow pressure supplied by the Interga Sequal may be too low (6 psi) and recommended a unit the operates at higher pressure (up to 20 psi). The cost was not different so I do not think he was trying to stiff me. I explained that the chamber only operates at 4 psi, but he mentioned this still might be a problem.

    He admitted he was not an expert on hyperbarics but had heard of problems with concentrators operating at too low a psi, although he did not remember a case with the Integra. He said it was the psi of the concentrator not the LPM that is most important. Also I saw on this web page that the concentrator should have 15 psi outflow pressure, although they are obviously selling their own wares:

    http://www.1oxygen.com/oxygenaccessories/hyperbaricbags.htm


    Has anyone measured the actual flow from the integra once it is in the chamber? Thanks.

    Edited to add: Although I can only report what I have read or heard anecdotally, my impression is that many, if not most, people and clinics doing mhobt are using the Integra 10L. It must have a decent track record. However, I have also been reading that the flow can be considerably reduced (possibly < 5L/M) due to back pressure from the inflated chamber. I am looking at the Air Sep Intensity, similar price, also at 10L, but with a 20 psi outflow pressure. I think this may insure high flow rates in the chamber, although I don't know about its track record.
  16. pine108kell

    pine108kell Senior Member

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    Although I have done chamber treatments before in a doctor's office, it is easier to experiment with these devices when at home, which I can now do. I have a report after a few months with my solace hyperbaric chamber and oxygen concentrator. I have run them alone and together:

    1) I am surprised how much response I get by just running the chamber without the supplemental oxygen. I was not expecting anything, but the high pressure definitely made me feel better temporarily. Major head clearing--I don't know if this is anywhere close to how a normal healthy person feels, but it is nice while it lasts. After a day or so, I still feel better in some ways but start feeling worse in others. This worsening feeling progresses for a few days. Although this feeling is consistent with the way I feel from antibiotics, and I suspect it is a herx from die-off, I really do not know. I could not rule out "oxygen toxicity" since the high pressure is probably pushing o2 into my tissues, but I am not supplying supplemental oxygen.

    2) I get less effect by just breathing o2 from the concentrator without the chamber but it does help some with mental clarity. I noticed I could read and think more clearly while breathing o2 but the effect ends shortly after breathing o2. I also get the worsening feeling later on, but it is notably less than just the chamber.

    3) When I run both chamber and o2 together, I respond similar to just the chamber but with a little more punch. Anyone with CFS that does not notice some type of response from this treatment is sick in some ways totally different from me. It is very obvious response. FYI: I have been diagnosed with lyme but who knows?

    Initial conclusions: Although the supplemental o2 has an effect, it is the high pressure that is the major cause of symptom clearing and subsequent "herx-type" feeling for me. I admit that there is no way to know if this is really a die off or something else or if it is a positive or negative response. Since I felt better a few years ago when I was doing chamber treatments in a doctors office, I assume it is helping longer term but it is too early to say.

    I have had some sinus/respiratory issues/infections since running the chamber/o2. I do not know if this is causing the problem or exacerbating something else (we have had a bad allergy season). I do believe the high pressure aggrevates sinus/respiratory issues.
  17. jenbooks

    jenbooks Guest

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    Are you using the chamber daily? Depending on what concentrator you got, you can attach a plastic container with some water in it, which will hydrate and moisturize the air. 02 can dry out the nose--I'd think that might be an issue with sinus problems, not sure. I never used it myself, but for daily sessions in a clinic chamber, they always do that.

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