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Have you significantly used or abused any drugs in the past before the onset of symptoms?

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by maxm, May 8, 2014.

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Have you significantly used or abused any drugs in the past before the onset of symptoms?

  1. Marijuana

    13 vote(s)
    21.7%
  2. MDMA (Ecstasy)

    4 vote(s)
    6.7%
  3. Methamphetamines

    5 vote(s)
    8.3%
  4. Cocaine

    6 vote(s)
    10.0%
  5. Opiates

    3 vote(s)
    5.0%
  6. Other Substances

    17 vote(s)
    28.3%
  7. None of the above

    32 vote(s)
    53.3%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

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    Reindeer rather like a bit of the hallucinogen fly agaric;
    elephants get drunk on fermented fruit;
    where monkeys run wild around tourists, they steal cocktails and cigarettes from them. (or eat fermented fruit in the wild)
    My great aunt Zena had a gander, George, who was forever breaking into the grain shed and eating the grain which fermented in his stomach and got him drunk.
    They knew they had to fix the shed (again) when they saw George staggering around!

    eta. and many cats go nuts for catnip:cat:
    Last edited: May 15, 2014
    Iquitos likes this.
  2. manna

    manna Senior Member

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    there ran a series of programmes on animals getting "high". i think they're on youtube. saw the one with the monkies. interestingly they were similar to humans, or vice versa, in that some were teetotal, some fell asleep after alcohol, some became aggressive, some were prone to over-indulgence etc

    funny seeing a hedgehog take a cigarette butt and spread the tobacco all over itself, whilst appearing to get a buzz or enjoyment of some kind from it. clearly loved it.

    due to poor digestion, alcohol from fementation can be an issue with me/cfs, i think.
  3. Iquitos

    Iquitos Senior Member

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    Re: ayahuasca, I spent about $3,000 and three weeks in Peru at a "healing retreat" touting ayahuasca as the be-all, end-all treatment for everything under the sun. It should have been called a "bootcamp" as there was nothing remoting resembling a "healing retreat" offered.

    It was a total waste of time, money and my health. It a made me so much sicker that it took about 5 months to just get back to the level I was at before I went to the Amazon. When I left there, in a wheelchair, the black circles around my eyes were bigger than I imagined possible -- arching over my eyebrows and extending down below my cheekbones. Part of the problem was sleep deprivation which made the "retreat" more like some kind of quest or endurance test, rather than focusing on healing.

    There were about a dozen other participants at the same time and some of them did get good results, mainly with depression, and one who felt he was "possessed." It may be that the neurological damage I have after more than 30 years of this disease made it impossible for the ayahuasca to work on me as it did on others. But others who had physical problems they wanted fixed did not get that kind of result.
    amaru7, golden and taniaaust1 like this.
  4. manna

    manna Senior Member

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    yeah im sure there are plenty of not so good or overly hyped centres and shamans. personally i would never have gone that route. for starters shamans are usually VERY christian and don't "get" westerners. really, you're responsible too for the affect of the decision to travel to the Amazon in poor health, on yourself, to some extent at least. especially if you had injections too. there's no doubt that it can be incredibly healing for many people in the right setting and dose. i'm taking it then that you never broke through? its very common for doses to do absolutely nothing, though generally they get it right but poor digestion can possibly be a factor in breaking through. im glad you got over it in the end and sorry it wasn't worthwhile for you.
    --------------
    this is fairly balanced short docu on it. The Man Who Drank The Universe--



    UK TV presenter Alistair Appleton, buddhist teetoller plus drug free, drinks Ayahuasca. lady in it with a movement disorder too.

    its common to think your me/cfs has gone following ayahuasca because it so wholeheartedly erases the built up pain of years of illness. theres a thread on dmtnexus forum of a man who claimed instant recovery from me/cfs from smoking dmt, which here is concentrated extracted source of one of the components of ayahuasca. perrsonally i think dmt is illegal for a very good reason as i think its dangerous as folk don't come back from it. but ayahuasca, the right dose, right setting, contra-indications taken into consideration, is very safe. women have done it in childbirth. after child birth to "put their body's back together".

    this was good too. Extreme celebrity detox ayahuasca... part 1 http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/37363/Extreme_Celebrity_Detox___Ayahuasca_Pt_1_3/ part 2 http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/37364/Extreme_Celebrity_Detox___Ayahuasca_Pt_2_3/ part 3 http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/37365/Extreme_Celebrity_Detox___Ayahuasca_Pt_3_3/
    its interesting to see the before and after. its reality tv but they have quite the journey i think. this is not to sell ayahuasca to anyone. its not necessary. but done responsibly it can have a place i think. oh im sure there are excellent centres as well.
    Last edited: May 15, 2014
    cigana likes this.
  5. amaru7

    amaru7 Senior Member

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    @Iquitos wow I Have Read About ayahuasca And Have Huge Respect Of The Drug And That You Went Through That Experience it must have been amazingly intense. I have tried psylocybin mushrooms once so I have an imagination of psychedelics and how extend such an experience can be. Ayahuasca is a totally other level though from what I've read about it. But I don't think of psychedelics add being any healing our curative just like any other drugs they can actually mess with our brain and body chemistry
  6. manna

    manna Senior Member

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    should be noted that auyashuasca is not like other psychedelics like mushrooms. mushrooms are subjective in that the experience is a multiplication of yourself. so if you're stressed you could become more so (although its not necessary..you could chose to go from stressed to happy, its a choice). ayahuasca doesn't require inner psychological fortitude to be ok. it will give that to you if done correctly. ayahuasca is always difficult at first as it extricates your fears and you you feel them more as this happens but you are never in any way led to believe or feel that this is anything other than necessary and healing. big difference. its been many many years since it was ok for me to do it and my health was certainly alot better when i took it occasionally. fortnightly, like some religions do, denigrates it to a drug imo.
  7. Iquitos

    Iquitos Senior Member

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    Injec
    Injections??? Broke through??? I have no idea what those statements are about.

    The shaman was not Christian and I'm in agreement with their view of plant medicine. It paralles my Taoism to a large degree. I did meet the plant spirit of ayahuasca but it couldn't help me. I asked it to influence the epigenetics of this illness and it couldn't. But then, I happen to think it's possible that ME, as it is now, is a man-made pathogen, either accidentally or purposefully, and maybe a plant medicine cannot be that effective against a man-made illness.

    But the shamans and the facilitators all had the attitude that one must suffer more to "deserve" healing, which I do not agree with. That is what made it into a "vision quest" type of experience and not a healing one. One feature of an ayahuasca "retreat" is that there is a whole lot of forced vomiting. Ayahuasca itself is called "la purga" because it forces a great deal of vomiting and those shamans believe the "bad spirits" are expelled in the vomit. Most centers also administer other plants that cause vomiting and diarhhea. During the "ceremony" everyone is provided with a vomit bucket and the sounds you hear for the first hour or two ("ceremonies" last for 5-7 hours) are the sounds of people puking their guts out. That alone wore me out. I attended 13 such ceremonies while there for three weeks. In hindsight, I should have left the "retreat" early, as did 4 other participants who didn't benefit either, but I kept hoping it would start to work for me.

    I have read of two other people with ME who have tried ayahuasca. They both said they had improvement, or thought they did, but it didn't last. They were both young men who had not been sick for 32 years as I have.

    I get the impression you think someone as sick as I am/was is somehow wrong to try a difficult treatment in hopes on getting better. I just don't understand that attitude. Those who can, do the same with the experimental treatments that are available to us now -- Ampligen, for instance, or Rituximab.

    I am not selling it nor am I telling others not to try ayahuasca. I'm just sharing one person's real life experience with it. There is plenty of propaganda out there about how wonderful it is. Even as I got sicker while there, those who felt they had positive experiences were being videotaped for youtube, about how it fixed all their problems. I, however, was simply ignored after I did not get better. There was pressure to support the product and process they were selling and to blame the patient for not getting better. "You're resisting the ayahuasca" I was told, which could not be further from the truth. I meditated before each ceremony and surrendered to Mother Ayahuasca. I saw the white anaconda, representing Her. I asked for my healing in 13 different ways. She did not heal me. She did not harm me either. It was the human process around it that harmed me, especially the sleep deprivation.
  8. manna

    manna Senior Member

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    vaccinations are generally required for travelling abroad and can be particularly problematic for folk with me/cfs imo. but you may not have had any of course. by breakthrough i mean to other realms or entity contact, basically otherworldly experiences. theres a point with dmt when normal reality breaks down.
    as im sure you know, me/cfs represents a challenge to any healer and generally shows the inadequacies of their treatments when used for this specific long term illness. i don't go with the man made stuff personally.

    not quite sure what you're suggesting here. suffer more during the process? the idea that one is deserving, or not, of healing is clearly wrong.
    "forced vomitting"...you mean emetics? i've been scared to try those knowing that my ability to vomit has reduced, i would be scared i couldn't expel, which is very necessary, the emetic. were you given an emetic outside of the aya ceremony and if so did it make you vomit? id be interested as i have contemplated emetics. 13 ceremonies...no-one can say you didn't try huh! ive encountered a few people who find it very necessary to drink it alone, even without a sitter. terence mckenna, a cool bloke but i don't align myself with his ideas, could not journey with a sitter as, as he said, he gets too much into their psyche and thats not good. one fella reported experienncing other peoples problems and knowing their darkest secrets just because they were journeying next to him. so group journeys are another kettle of fish altogether. i think you should have left too. my problem with retreats is that you come under their philosophy of health. really all they should do is provide a safe place to do it imo.
    yes it doesn't cure me/cfs...though it might for a very few. it comes back for me too, the me/cfs, but then my interest in it is not to cure me/cfs (it was at first) but to clear the ground around myself, erase the affects of longterm illness on the psyche...etc, so that there are less obstacles to focussing on healing.

    no i don't think you're wrong to try it at all. in retrospect the retreat was obviously a bad idea but how were you to know? we have deduced that a retreat, or some retreats, could be risky for some with me/cfs.

    ok, all fair enough, but to be clear, your ayahuasca experience was one with retreats. it might be wholly more beneficial if done at home for instance. but that might not be possible due to your countries laws or you may not want to. the experiences you speak of above are more reasons i wouldn't attend a retreat. the fact you're under their health philosophy etc. im glad you seperate ayahuasca from the retreat and the people in it. you say she didn't heal you...i found that what i liked was the fact that i did the healing. i did have external forces too...i'll share one::

    i was laying there suffering, as is usual for the first halff (antagonist to protagonist), when i became aware that i was to receive some grace, i.e. healing without suffering the pain first. i felt a diamond being pressed into a point on my brow, third eye i assume, and then some kind of spirit hawk/eagle flew out of my head (lol). i lay there inadvertently meditative for about 20 seconds and it returned and entered my forehead again, which did feel strange. i knew i should lay still. then 4 beings appeared round my bed. 3 were what i would describe as energy healers looking like some kind of wizard. each one took what seemed to be a part of my energy field and commenced swishing a wand or their hands or something, through this field. i could feel the affects on my body too. the fourth being was some kind of overseer and i was less aware of him. after several minutes or half an hour, i really couldn't tell, they finished and left...no goodbyes! after that i spent the rest of the night in a kind of ecstatic trance with energy shooting up my spine.

    the point...it certainly cleared a few blocks. add to that the purge, which is an important part. ive never found the purge tp be forced in any way. it does consume you when it comes over as it feels like your whole body, including your big toe, is about to projectile vomit all of your problems. the purge can also clear your digestive tract of many bugs, parasites and the like and give your gut health a re-boot. microbes etc all have certain frequencies and when ill the body is opened to lower vibratory systems to invade and start their job of dismantling and returning you to the soil...ayahuasca via majorly increasing your vibratory rate enables you to throw off and purge most things that are lower frequency. but intestinal integrity takes months to repair and build. so aya could never do that in a night.

    i also had what seemed like a soul retrieval and that felt deeply helpfull...to become aware of a part of yourself and connect to that releases a kind of energy. it allowed me to see a pictorial representation of the suffering id gone through with me/cfs up to that point. by seeing it and feeling and watching it from a point of meditative awareness, disolved that suffering. so the healing goes way beyond even trying to cure me/cfs. it was more to clear me out so i could focus on what i needed to do during the daily basis of the illness. all this was many years ago and im worse now and wonder if i could even make use of her now. it helped me a great deal at the time and if i could, i would, as i know it would erase the affects the last few years have unfortunately had on me.
  9. amaru7

    amaru7 Senior Member

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    Just seen this on fb, I still have the greatest respect for DMT and wouldn't try it out, but it is an intriguing drug. I've always been interested in mind expansion and also like terrence mckenna. But still as said I wouldn't do or recommend it, just have a curiosity on it

    ___________

    Contrary to the belief that DMT trips are mere hallucinations, Dr. Rick Strassman claims that that DMT actually teleports our consciousness to other dimensions of reality, giving us access to unseen realms. In other words, it allows your mind to access other universes!

    http://www.spiritscienceandmetaphysics.com/can-dmt-connect-the-human-brain-to-a-parallel-universe/
    Last edited: May 16, 2014
  10. manna

    manna Senior Member

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    Rick Strassmans studies, carried out in a hospital environment, were done using intravenous pure dmt. its whole other ball game to drinking ayahuasca and can be much stronger. you need a strong constitution for it i think. can mess folk up. im undecided whether it has any real healing potential like ayahuasca has. personally id stay well away from pure dmt...its illegal any way. hes right though, id agree, its not halucinations. it is more real than the bed you're led on. interesting to come accross scientists and atheists trying to grapple with the dmt enigma and the ending of their old worldview.
  11. stevesayshi

    stevesayshi

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    Drank almost daily 5-8 beers (for a year) then added 2 months of an antifungal that in combination wrecked up my liver. Adrenal fatigue type symptoms showed up a couple months later, then I caught the virus, and here we are.

    Oh, I smoked pot sometimes, usually several times over the course of a week or 2 and then months off. Had a couple intense mushroom trips. .. One in which time ran backwards. .. that as the essay on the front says provided a frame of reference for when the mental symptoms were really bad, and did cocaine (which sucked) a few times.

    Caffeine I rarely used heavily for long periods. Sometimes when I was healthy I would go nuts with 3 or 4 energy drinks or a while pot of coffee, but usually 0-2 cups a day.
    Last edited: May 19, 2014
  12. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

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    I would think that the "mind" can only access "other universes" if it believes in such things in the first place.
    Much as Richard Dawkins had an experience of sorts when he underwent transcranial electromagnetic stimulation of the so-called "god-spot", but he did not attribute it to a god figure, (which those of a religious/spiritual disposition did).

    I do not believe in parallel universes or alternative realities, except in folk's imaginations.

    So I would be rather suspicious of Dr. Rick Straussman's ideas.:p
  13. svetoslav80

    svetoslav80 Senior Member

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    10 years smoking
    5 years alcoholism
    heroin - (only smoking) for a year, one or two times a week,
    glutethimide + codeine (these turn into morphine when combined) - only occasionally, but in big quantities
    diasepam, lexotan - occasionally
    methamphetamines - occasionally
    marijuana - 2 years

    Could I have harmed myself? :confused:
    peggy-sue likes this.
  14. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

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    Wow, what a strong, brave person you must be to have kicked the things you have. Respect, @svetoslav80 :thumbsup:
  15. Iquitos

    Iquitos Senior Member

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    Just to be clear, ayahuasca IS an emetic. That's why it's called "la purga" in Spanish. Purga, as in "to purge", means to vomit, in this context, or purification, in general.
    manna likes this.
  16. svetoslav80

    svetoslav80 Senior Member

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    I'm not strong and brave, just my current condition doesn't allow me to use drugs anymore, but thanks :)
  17. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

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    It's still not an easy thing to cope with. Folk tell me I'm strong and brave to have quit too, but I don't feel it either.
    It's easier to see the strength and bravery in somebody else. :p

    Being brave and strong is coping, despite feeling weak and scared.:thumbsup:
    amaru7, svetoslav80 and Iquitos like this.
  18. manna

    manna Senior Member

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    la purga meaning spiritual too, not just physical. i would not call it an emetic. emetics are herbs that irritate the stomach lining causing vomitting. the purge from ayahuasca is not caused by irritation to the stomach lining, although its pretty rank, in herbally natural kind of way (this encourages stomach acid), but by the shedding of lower energies via a rise in consciousness. theres a point called the miracao, that alistair appleton alluded to in his video, where it "just went crazy"..when you feel like you're the centre of an atomic explosion. the affect that has on lower life forms is to cause them to die/leave via any exit they can find.
    Last edited: May 17, 2014
  19. Iquitos

    Iquitos Senior Member

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    An emetic is any substance that causes vomiting for any reason. And yeah, ayahuasca is very irritating to the stomach and the gut. If one doesn't vomit it all out, it causes lower intestinal distress, too, and diarrhea for some. As a speaker of Spanish myself, I can assure you that when the shamans or the facilitators at an ayahuasca ceremony talk about "la purga", they are talking about physically vomiting -- over and over.
  20. manna

    manna Senior Member

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    you can have ayahuasca in your body, as you probably know, for many hours before the purge, or a much less. so it can't be said to induce vomitting in itself. point being that the purge you get on ayahuasca is brought on by a system wide detox reaction to lower energies via a rise in cinsciousness. i agree they mean physical vomitting, but not only was the point. you're shedding emotional stuff too of course and possibly spiritual,,,plus mental. too much salt will make you vomit. an emetic is a herbal infusion designed to induce vomitting, safely i'd imagine and not generally by way of a psychedelic/spiritual experience....but if that includes emetics then so be it. i wsas thinking more like the emetic they give heroin addicts to help them purge which has no psychedelic affect. i disagree its "very irritating" and diarhea is generally expected at some point i think.

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