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Have you had this realization?

Discussion in 'Spirituality and ME/CFS' started by cmt12, Mar 16, 2015.

  1. cmt12

    cmt12 Senior Member

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    One of the first and most profound insights in 'spiritual development' is an experience of what for me felt like complete connectedness and ego-less-ness along with the realization that ultimate reality (or God if you want) is all 'good'.

    It seems there are a few common catalysts for this experience including deep introspection/meditation, psychedelics, near death experiences, or intense pain and suffering. Since this condition we share brings much suffering, I'm wondering if there are many here who have had this realization I am describing
     
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  2. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    I don't share a condition with you. Whatever you have, it makes you believe that pacing and inactivity are not helpful and are even harmful. That isn't any variety of ME/SEID which I've ever heard of.

    Our disease is also not caused by "imprints" and meditation is not the key to cure, despite your assertions in this thread.
     
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  3. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    You do not share a condition with me.
     
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  4. mango

    mango Senior Member

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    @cmt12, i read the posts you wrote in the thread linked above by Valentijn. i'm not sure where you are going with this...

    needless to say, enlightened sages get sick too, like for example Sri Ramana Maharishi who died of cancer. transcending the ego and/or realizing - or even embodying - the ultimate reality/the Absolute/"God" doesn't make our humanity, vulnerability or bodily form disappear... doesn't necessarily improve our health either.

    i'm genuinely curious, where does your question come from?
     
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  5. cmt12

    cmt12 Senior Member

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    I'm not trying to repeat that thread if that's what you're wondering. I'd like to think I now have a better understanding of how to communicate about all this.

    Are you asking why I would care? I guess I'm going to avoid answering that question because I'm not looking to get into a debate.
     
  6. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

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    When I was a child of about 8, crossing the Bay of Biscay at night, during a storm, I escaped my parents and got myself up onto the bridge of the ship, outside.

    I couldn't tell the seaspray from the rain, I couldn't tell the black roaring sea from the black sky, full of blustering winds.

    I felt at one with it all - vastly important and mindblowingly insignificant all at the same time.
    It was, I think, what Maslow calls a moment of self-actualisation.

    It was profoundly meaningful to me, and a tremendous relief, to discover that I am absolutely meaningless.

    It has nothing to do with spirituality or religion, or even being sick.

    It was just me, starting to get hold of the notion of infinity.

    It sounds as if you've had something similar - you have just interpreted it acccording to your own way of thinking, which was to attribute "good" to it, while I attributed it to a small understanding of "infinity".
     
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  7. mango

    mango Senior Member

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    @cmt12 i asked because i'd be interested to know what kind of replies/comments you are looking for. what is it that you really want, want to know, and why? (is it simple yes/no answers you are after, are you looking to share/compare experiences or insights, talk about your beliefs and ideas, hoping for pointers that can possibly lead to a deepening of your understanding, is it about altered states of awareness in relation to cognitive and emotional challenges, or is it about how to attain lasting freedom from suffering, etc etc etc..?)

    there are ten thousand ways to reply to your question -- i'd like to meet you where you're at and start there, and i prefer not to guess.

    like i said, i'm genuinely curious.
     
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  8. cmt12

    cmt12 Senior Member

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    I would think with the disabling aspect of this condition along with the lack of useful information about the cause that that would be especially conducive to having this realization even more so than other health issues. I mean that it would be more likely to cause someone to really take a step back and seek help from a higher power.

    I'm operating from the belief that spiritual seeking is driven by unfulfillment in the general sense; the more one suffers over a long period of time, the more likely to explore the unknown. So that's where I'm coming from with this thread. Since you said you looked through that old thread I made, you obviously realize I have more to say about 'spirituality' as it relates to health but I'm not looking to go there right now in this thread.
     
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  9. PNR2008

    PNR2008 Senior Member

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    Julian of Norwich, a mystic had many visions while waiting to die. She was only thirty and everyone around her thought she would die too. One of her visions was God telling her that all will be well, every conceivable thing will be well.

    I believe that many experiences can lead one to feel connectedness, the communion of saints. I have felt that intense emotion can give way to a calm, whether it is beautiful music, pain and agony, sickness and despair or love of another, wonder at the beauty of a child or just noticing the world working in a perfect manner.
     
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  10. Tammy

    Tammy Senior Member

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    For me...................I've always wanted to explore the unknown....as you put it and have been driven to explore spirituality even before getting sick..............so being ill wasn't the driving factor for me.. Was I unfulfilled? I was going to say no............but perhaps in a sense I was................Religion was puzzling for me from a very early age.........it wasn't doing anything for me as it "appeared" to be doing for others..............Science (I love science.......don't get me wrong) but it has it's own limitations. I think we could speculate for ages about what drives someone to explore their higher power or whatever term you want to use..

    I have had a couple of experiences where I felt like I was completely connected to everything...........and everything seemed like it was absolutely the way that it should be............and it felt like there was no realm, no nook or cranny where love didn't exist because Love was everything........it felt like Love was God and all I needed to do was just be that love...................that's putting the experience in the most simplistic terms..........because I feel like there is no way I could accurately articulate it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2015
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  11. Tammy

    Tammy Senior Member

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    I remembered something else about the experience that stayed in my mind for a long while.....a thought that kept going through my head...........'there are no agendas'
     
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  12. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    His question contained inaccurate statements, which were likely to mislead people who were not aware of the nasty implications he was putting forth on other threads.
     
  13. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    The negativety card played agaiin.

    Why is taking distance from what is stated as fact ( sharing a condition) being negative?


     
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  14. GhostGum

    GhostGum Senior Member

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    Ultimate reality seems like such a trivial concept, to say the least, given the breadth of the universe, and potentially beyond. The revelation I have gradually had through my endless suffering with this condition is 'spirituality' is purely individual, within the confines of your own existence (without even getting into how this shitty body limits it). Assuming we even exist on and in some different form/plain I think our spiritual nature is likely just as individualised as our physical nature, ever evolving and changing. You can think you have experienced nirvana or some ultimate truth, but as soon as you do it is gone and you are shifting or dealing with something else in some other form, there is no end goal or getting off the wheel of karma, just endless change IMO.

    Of course this could all be delusion, moments of positive ego loss could simply be a release of mental limitations and finding a nice brain/emotional state, people also get ego loss and jump out of windows. My own experience through this illness is also a very negative one in these respects, an incredible sense of disconnect a hell of a lot of time, getting healthier and experience the exact opposite.

    Just a biological paradox, or something more? I tend to think spiritual concepts just trivialise the real nature of my condition and others, even if it is a factor in life, does not seem much to consider spiritually about getting a brain injury and becoming a vegetable for instance. My own personal experiences I have not found sufficient enough yet to find solid understanding of a spiritual existence, but I will keep an eye out, or an eye in :)
     
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  15. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Hey GhostGum, thanks for your thoughts. So much that could be commented on the topic of spirituality, but your mentioning the wheel of karma brought up memories for me. Early on in life I was not satisfied with the spiritual explanations I was getting from Christianity, so I ended up becoming somewhat of a rebel and ventured beyond that.

    It didn't take long to start running into many references on karma, and the wheel of karma. Over time my reaction to those (fairly depressing) references was, "to what end"? Not satisfied that Souls were destined to spend eternity in an endless round of often miserable lifetimes, I, as you put it, determined to "keep an eye out, or an eye in".

    I eventually found an explanation and description about karma that made a lot more sense to me (isn't it interesting how we often end up finding exactly what we're looking for?) :) Yes, we all go through many lifetimes, but eventually, all Souls "graduate" from this arena of karma and reincarnation, and never have to return again. Meaning, we're all on somewhat of a common spiritual journey, in that we all end up achieving spiritual freedom.

    In the mean time, we go through an almost infinite variety of experiences over many lifetimes. Alternating gender as we go through a variety of religions, races, cultures, economic and health circumstances, etc.. We've all been men, we've all been women. We've all been rich, we've all been poor. We've all been healthy, we've all been sick. We've all been white, we've all been black. We've all been the slave, we've all been the master, etc., etc. etc. It's all about gaining spiritual maturity, and learning to live a life from a place of love and good will instead of one of power over our fellow human beings.

    Interestingly, the timetable for this spiritual education is completely up to us. There's no hurry, as the spiritual planes we eventually move on to have no concept of time as we do on this plane. --- So that's my own ramblings for today. ;):)

    Best to All, Wayne
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2015
  16. mango

    mango Senior Member

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    @cmt12 thank you for clarifying. so, to answer your question: yes, i've had many mystical experiences and altered states of awareness during meditation, as well as experiential realizations of the Infinite/the Absolute/whatever-you-want-to-call-it etc.

    however, it wasn't something i was looking for, it just happened spontaneously. when it first started happening i was in a very good place: healthy, happy, content and leading a "successful", fulfilling life, so in my case it doesn't seem like it was brought on by suffering.

    also, these experiences have had a massively different impact on me and my outlook on life, compared to what you are expressing in your posts.

    i have many friends who have had these kinds of mystical experiences and realizations too, but none of them have ME.
     
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  17. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    @cmt12


    Sorry, I have deleted this post, and moved its content (about the Wessely School's "all in the mind" view of ME/CFS) to here.
     
  18. cmt12

    cmt12 Senior Member

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  19. mango

    mango Senior Member

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    neither. non-dualism.
     
  20. cmt12

    cmt12 Senior Member

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    Is that different than monistic idealism? If so, can you explain the differences?
     

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