The 12th Invest in ME Conference, Part 1
OverTheHills presents the first article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME international Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
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Have you found anything that reduces muscle spasms/myoclonus?

Discussion in 'General Symptoms' started by Basilico, Apr 18, 2017.

  1. Basilico

    Basilico Florida

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    I tried searching to see if there were already posts about this but couldn't really find anything.

    In the past few months, I've been getting some pretty bad muscle spasms, mainly in my legs and ankles. This is causing pain as a reaction to those muscles getting overstressed.

    I've tried taking magnesium malate/glycinate and potassium citrate when this happens, plus methylfolate followed by a sublingual mB12 about 20 minutes later. This doesn't seem to help at all. My level of hydration doesn't seem to make any difference.

    Has anyone found anything that either reduces or eliminates muscle spasms? Or found anything that is a trigger that can be avoided?

    I have a rx for Baclofen, but that doesn't do anything for muscle spasms at all :(
     
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  2. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    @Basilico - how much potassium were you taking? Low potassium causes muscle spasms and cramps for me in my legs and feet too.

    I suggest you look at this thread, if you haven't already: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...lation-important-info-re-low-potassium.49540/

    If you have low potassium that is being caused by methylation supplements, B12 and/or methylfolate, the remedy is not to add in more B12 and methylfolate, which I think could cause your potassium to drop even further.

    I have to take 800 - 1000 mg. of potassium gluconate a day, in divided doses, plus low-sodium V8, which is high in potassium, to stave off symptoms of low potassium. Some people have to take more, I've read of some taking up to 3000 mg. a day. But we're all different, and I urge you to read about it. The important thing is not to take a huge amount all at once, but to titrate up to an optimum dose, taking it in divided doses throughout the day.
     
  3. deleder2k

    deleder2k Senior Member

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    Alcohol alleviates my muscle spasms. I've tried different stuff. I take magnesium too, but I don't think it helps. I have some benzos if I need it. It helps me to sleep, but doesn't alleviate my spasms. Perhaps they are reduced slightly, but 25 mg oxazepam makes me feel shit for 18 hours. Usually not worth it.
     
  4. CFS_for_19_years

    CFS_for_19_years Hoarder of biscuits

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    After trying about 8 different magnesium supplements, this one stopped chronic spasms in my calf:

    http://www.magtabsr.com/
    http://www.magtabsr.com/shop/

    Before I started taking Mag-TabSR, I was vaping cannabis to relieve calf spasms. I gave up cannabis once I started taking Mag-TabSR.
     
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  5. Shoshana

    Shoshana Northern USA

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    @Basilico

    I had been going to say, that everyone recommends some ..... but that I had NOT found them helpful....

    and then you listed the same things, that you too had tried. ;):(

    I wonder though, do you mainly get them, when upright, sitting, or walking, or when horizontal in bed?

    Might make some difference. In causes and what to try.
    Such as, circulation, or cold or heat.....
     
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  6. Basilico

    Basilico Florida

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    I've been taking 1,500mg of potassium citrate (which has about 575 grams of elemental potassium) per day.




    Thanks for the link - I actually have read that thread, it's good :)

    I don't think methylation is causing the problem. I haven't been taking any B vitamins in a while because I actually don't think I really need them - I did the full methylation protocol and never had a single positive or negative reaction, so I don't think it's an issue for me. When the spasms started, I revisited methyfolate and mB12 just in case it could help, but they don't seem to do anything.




    I'll try taking my normal dose multiple times a day, just to 100% rule out that potassium is involved. Thanks.
     
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  7. Basilico

    Basilico Florida

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    Unfortunately, alcohol doesn't do great things for me :(

    At this point, the only thing I've ever tried that actually stopped the spasms was Soma, but my doctors don't seem to want to prescribe it to me, and I know that's not something I can use regularly anyway.
     
  8. Basilico

    Basilico Florida

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    Thanks, I just took a look at their website. The pricing seems reasonable, so I just placed an order for a bottle.

    Thank god it's extended release in pill form - trying to choke down magnesium powder mixed in liquids is nauseating!
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2017
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  9. Basilico

    Basilico Florida

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  10. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

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    Is it possible that Lyme causes the spasms?
     
  11. Basilico

    Basilico Florida

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    Highly unlikely. I feel very strongly that I don't have Lyme.
     
  12. caledonia

    caledonia

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    Usually that's due to a lack of electrolytes. The potassium deficiency thing related to methylation supps may take awhile to kick in, like several months, depending on how much you're supplementing.

    Do you have other symptoms like heart palpitations, feeling not calm, not sleeping well, etc.?

    You might need quite a bit of either potassium or magnesium or both. At one point I was doing 3000mg of potassium. Now I'm down to 50mg, but I still need 2800mg of magnesium.

    I dose the electrolytes four times a day for best absorption, with more before bedtime.

    =-=-==-

    I've also heard of lack of dopamine causing restless legs, and increasing vitamin D could help increase the dopamine. I've increase my vitamin D a bit just in case. I'm not sure if it's working. If it is, it takes several weeks to kick in.

    I've also heard that CBD oil could help, but don't take it if you have meds where you can't do grapefruit juice as it causes the same bad reaction.

    =-==-=-

    At any rate, this is how my doc had me figure out doses for electrolytes - start with potassium. Gradually increase over several days. There should be a sweet spot where you feel the best. If you start feeling worse, like metallic taste in the mouth, nauseous, diarrhea, that's too much. Back off a little.

    Then maintaining "your" dose of potassium, start adding magnesium with the same procedure. Go until you hit the sweet spot where you feel best. If you go over, and start feeling worse, back off a bit. That is "your" dose.

    If you're also craving salt or salty foods, add some salt until the craving goes away.

    =-==-=-=-

    You could also do the self tests for adrenal fatigue to see if you have that. If you have it, you'll likely be leaking out electrolytes and need to replace them.

    https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/

    Look at the section called Discovery Step Two.
     
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  13. Basilico

    Basilico Florida

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    I did the methylation protocol about 2 years ago and only rarely take B vitamins now since they don't seem to do anything for me.


    Nope.


    I will try ramping up my potassium and magnesium much higher over the course of the day just to rule out electrolyte issues. I just ordered the Mag-TabSR that @CFS_for_19_years suggested, because I really can't choke down any more powdered magnesium mixed with liquids!


    I feel a bit conflicted about vitamin D. I know that it helps some people, and it's an interesting idea to try. I have a feeling it won't work for me, though. Even though my vitamin D is a bit on the low side (My 0.25 and 1.25 are around 30), I live in Florida and I get sun almost every day...so either I have some other kind of issue that's hindering D, or maybe certain people can only ever actually reach certain levels. I'm not sure what's going on in my situation; at some point I'll have to figure it out, but it's on the back burner at the moment :)


    I think my husband has some leftover in the medicine cabinet...I will give this a try and see what happens.

    Thanks for all of your ideas!

    Everyone else...keep them coming!
     
  14. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    Mine became slowly less and less with overall improvement but I still get cramps.
     
  15. CFS_for_19_years

    CFS_for_19_years Hoarder of biscuits

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    Potassium helps magnesium enter the cell, so it is necessary to have both on board.

    The MagTabSR is gentler on your stomach than most other typed of magnesium. If you don't know your tolerance to it at first, you might try just one-half tablet twice a day. Taking it twice a day is what will help the most.

    I don't know if you've tried stretching yet. I find it's much easier to stretch a muscle when it's warm, i.e. after you've done your walk or after a warm bath. There are books and websites devoted to leg stretches. This stretch is what I use when I've overused my calf muscles:
    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    @Basilico - You say you "revisited" B12 and methylfolate when the spasms started. Again, B12 and methylfolate will do nothing for the spasms if they're due to low potassium and can actually make the spasms worse, because B12 and methylfolate can increase your need for potassium, thus inducing a greater potassium deficiency and more symptoms. So if the spasms are from low potassium, the answer is NOT more B12 and methylfolate. It's more potassium.

    You were taking 575 mg. of potassium and that's not much. You say you're going to increase your dose "multiple" times a day. Again, you should titrate up gradually, not all at once. You may end up needing 3 or 4 times what you're taking, but don't increase your dose 3 or 4 times all at once. Do it gradually over the course of a couple or even several days. Caledonia gives some good suggestions for doing this. e.g., I took 3 days to get up to 1000 mg a day, which was what worked for me.

    Even though you're not currently doing a methylation protocol, you can still be low in potassium. After I started taking methylfolate and experienced severe fatigue after a couple of days due to my potassium tanking, I realized I had had that particular fatigue before I even started the methylfolate, only I never knew what it was. And if you read the links provided, you'd see that people with ME/CFS tend to be low in intracellular potassium, despite often normal blood work.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2017
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  17. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    @Basilico - Whoops! I just saw sort of a major typo in my post above - where I say I "experienced severe fatigue after a couple of days due to my potassium taking", it should have said "potassium tanking" ......:confused: - sorry about that! Actually I'm going to fix it right now, in case I confuse anyone else :whistle:
     
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  18. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    Magnesium helps me, but when I take it regularly, not just after symptoms start.
     
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  19. Basilico

    Basilico Florida

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    I doubled my magnesium and potassium dosages yesterday...still no improvements. Tomorrow, I'll try tripling.
     
  20. Dechi

    Dechi Senior Member

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    I have electric shocks in my medium right gluteus, from sitting too much. I was treated by a sports therapist 3 times and it's pretty much gone. Sports therapists, in Canada, study 3-4 years in university. They are a lot more knowledgeable than regular massotherapists. They treat athletes and sports professionals. Not that I am athlete, but they are very good ! ;-)
     
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