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Have there been (or are in progress) studies on domestic animals owned by people with ME?

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by unto, Feb 28, 2017.

  1. unto

    unto Senior Member

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    I've owned three dogs and two cats, in my opinion, everyone has contracted the ME / cfs ..... possible that no researcher had the idea of studying the pets of people with ME / CFS?
    Or, in the hypothesis that the disease is infectious, try to produce groups of animals
    in order with ME / CFS to study them
     
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  2. 5150

    5150 Senior Member

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    It might depend on the version(at least cohort) that the person interacting with the pet(s) has. How virulent is it? How much close-space interaction is there? This is why licking of owners by pets should not happen: the pet may have a virus, and if it can be transmitted to humans (called zoonosis); or the owner transmits to the pet--- sneezing, coughing, face-to-face nuzzles, the pathogen could be transmitted.

    I feel the scenario of your thoughts is very possible --- if the pathogen indeed is a zoonosis- contagious type.

    I don't know of any of that type study. It might be a worthy idea... however,if it will hurt the animal, probably will, because they will be infected with the studied pathogen: I would not wish this on man's best friend, or on cats.

    Apparently the basic cause of our disease is not yet discovered.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2017
  3. Paralee

    Paralee Senior Member

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    I've been really wondering how much can be transferred from animal to human. It's just really strange my husband and I and our dog came down with calcium problems.
     
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  4. JES

    JES Senior Member

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    ME has not been proven to be transmitted among humans, so even less reason to believe it can be contracted from humans to other animals, it sounds more like some online conspiracy theory to me.

    Viruses have evolved for their specific host organism, so animals mostly don't suffer from exactly the same viruses as humans do, and vice versa. For example, cats may get infected by a virus called FIV (Feline immunodeficiency virus), which behaves much like HIV in humans. But cats cannot get infected with HIV from a human, nor can a human get FIV from a cat.
     
  5. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Senior Member

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    I have owned two cats since coming down with CFS/ME and neither animal has ever been diagnosed with CFS/ME. My last cat lived to be just under 22 years old which in cat years is OLD. My present cat is 7 years old and is absolutely full of energy.
     
  6. halcyon

    halcyon Senior Member

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    This was being discussed on another thread a while back, I forget which. There appears to be an identical disease in horses and there is evidence that it is also caused by enterovirus infection in some cases. I can't get at the published study, but it's discussed here.

    Also, during the investigation of the ME outbreak in Dalston, Wallis details the simultaneous occurrence of disease outbreak in patients pet budgerigars. They could never tie the two together so it was just thought to be a coincidence.

    These are the only two things I'm aware of on this subject.
     
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  7. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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    @unto Sorry, I just wanted to clarify, are you asking if there are cases of the illness being passed from the human to the animal or vice versa (from the animal to the human)?
     
  8. unto

    unto Senior Member

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    @Gingergrrl, I meant that we humans send it to our pets .... through leftover food, dandruff, sofa, bed, etc. ....

    @ 5150, I was referring to us humans ke pass the pathogen to animals (99%) ....
    sorry to me to make animals suffer (all) species dogs and cats ..... but we must admit that it would be a great way to do research on ME, safe and fast;
    I am convinced that this type of research would give excellent results in a short time,
    after all, they often use animals in medical research.


    @JES, Many pathogens affecting both animals and humans,
    the story of the ME and the gradual expansion can reasonably think of an infectious disease.

    @TigerLilea, It is almost impossible to have a clear diagnosis for us humans ... now it is unthinkable for animals ....
    I'm glad for your current cat that has so much energy.

    @halcyon, Thanks ...
     
  9. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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    I don't understand how you would know that humans pass pathogens to animals 99% of the time as you stated? I also don't agree that research on animals would be "safe and fast" as you said or that it would give excellent results in a short amount of time?

    Animal research can be long and brutal. It's taken me almost four years of non-stop searching to figure out some of the specifics of my illness and I still feel very much in the dark.

    When my dog was recently sick, it turned out she had a benign parathyroid tumor which was successfully removed w/surgery. I made the choice to do it but was terrified I could lose her. I would never let someone experiment on her.

    I'd rather they experiment on me. Animal results often do not translate to humans anyway.
     
  10. Paralee

    Paralee Senior Member

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    @Gingergrrl , I'm glad your sweetie's parathyroid tumor was benign, although that's kind of confusing to me. I thought most dogs with parathyroid tumors had a poor diagnosis.....I'm glad you two are still together.

    Pets are extensions of ourselves. Paralee
     
  11. Hutan

    Hutan Kina solidarity

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    I do think that is is likely that whatever is going wrong with us also goes wrong with some other primates and perhaps even other mammals. I'm surprised there haven't been more documented observations of long-term post-viral fatigue/malaise effects in, for example, chimpanzees that have contracted their version of EBV.

    Not that I am suggesting experimentation on primates - some old studies I have read about are truly horrendous. But, investigating observed primate cases and carrying out autopsies could be useful.
     
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  12. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    Without a good labtest that will not change.
     
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  13. RogerBlack

    RogerBlack Senior Member

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    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28222824 - "
    Curiosity killed the cat: no evidence of an association between cat ownership and psychotic symptoms at ages 13 and 18 years in a UK general population cohort."

    Not quite on topic, but I found the title amusing. (the purpose of the study is to find out if toxoplasma is causing undiagnosed conditions in children whos mothers were exposed to cats during pregnancy)
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2017
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  14. ukxmrv

    ukxmrv Senior Member

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    Unto,

    This has been a topic widely discussed on CFS groups over the decades. There was particular interest in the work of a Vet Dr Tarello with some CFS human patients going to see him for treatment (with no success sadly that I ever heard about)

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=Tarello W[Author]&cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=11440190

    My particular interest is because (around the time of my own acute ME onset) I adopted a cat from a woman who was no longer able to look after her as she was too ill. I've never been able to track her down again to see if she recovered or ever found a diagnosis. she also had a little dog and because the cat wasn't "right" I've wondered if the dog was sick as well.
     
  15. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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    @Paralee I don't really know the answer except that in my dog's case the parathyroid tumor was benign and they successfully removed it and she is doing very well now. Prior to the surgery, her calcium levels were dangerously high and she was peeing everywhere.
     
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  16. Paralee

    Paralee Senior Member

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    @Gingergrrl, yes, her body was fighting the high calcium and kidneys were working overtime filtering out the calcium. Funny vets can spot hyperparathyroidism a lot faster than doctors. I had it and had to self diagnose and the docs still wouldn't cooperate.
     
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  17. unto

    unto Senior Member

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    I meant that (99%) are the humans to transmit ME animals .... although of course the reverse is possible, and how human animals transmit it to other animals ......

    I'm sick for more than 30 years of ME, so I would not stay even one more minute ....... the research done on animals produces knowledge and drugs against many serious diseases ....I agree that it is atrocious ....

    however, I was referring to the type of research focused demonstrating whether ME is a contagious disease or not .......... there are many reports of patients who reported symptoms of their animals that could suggest the ME (tiredness, listlessness, vulnerability to cold ...) .......
    in this type of research it would sicken animals (dogs, cats mostly) .... it's horrible anyway, but I would do it
     
  18. unto

    unto Senior Member

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    If ME is contagious disease, if pets can contract ME from their human masters (as I believe) and if this research proves it ...... then you can easily get to a good labtest
     
  19. unto

    unto Senior Member

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    I know a little studies of dr. Tarello, is an Italian veterinarian who moved to Dubai, it seems to me that he too was suffering from ME / CFS ...... his therapy was based on arsenic, it seems to me that he also used on himself as well as animal he believed ME sufferers ........ I do not think that Dr. Tarello be cured, only that the climate of Dubai makes him feel better ...... it's like for us the month of July (a few less drowsiness pain, fewer colds and viruses) then over there with so much wilderness around there are fewer viruses and pathogens in general ....
     
  20. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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    I guess I was confused b/c I always hear of tick borne diseases from animals or bartonella from cats to humans etc, vs. the other way around.

    I'm unclear what you would do? Do you mean the kind of animal research done by the drug and cosmetic companies or just blood tests looking for a bio-marker? Am just curious! Apologies if I do not reply until tomorrow.
     

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