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Have core strengthening exercises improved your OI?

Discussion in 'Autonomic, Cardiovascular, and Respiratory' started by Sasha, Jul 8, 2015.

  1. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    I've read that strengthening your leg & core muscles should improve OI but does it?

    Has anyone found it so, or is this just some theoretical/marginal thing?
     
  2. Mij

    Mij Senior Member

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    My understanding is that lower limb resistance training helps pump blood back to the heart.
     
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  3. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    Thanks, Mij - but my question is whether anyone here has tried strengthening their leg/core muscles and if so, was it their personal experience that it made much, if any difference?

    Trying to stay away from theory and focus on the results in practice! :)
     
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  4. Mij

    Mij Senior Member

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    I've tried it when I'm feeling better but I don't like resistance type exercise, it brings on PEM. I do find walking better for OI but only in the evening.
     
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  5. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    I don't think I've been clear in what I'm saying! :oops:

    I'm not talking about feeling better while you're doing the exercise or shortly after - I'm talking about strengthening your muscles so that those stronger muscles are better at keeping blood in your brain and heart in the long run.

    So if you spent three months strengthening those muscles, would your OI be improved at the end of it?
     
  6. ukxmrv

    ukxmrv Senior Member

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    How would a PWME spend months strengthening their core and leg muscles without increasing their PEM to an extent that they would not even notice that their OI was better?

    I had a look on the internet for core and leg muscle strengthening exercises but the ones I found were the type of thing that make me very weak with PEM and cause serious long term harm. I can't do repetitive exercises of this type.

    Does that make sense, maybe for people who have OI without ME it would work?
     
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  7. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    Nancy Klimas (and others, I think) recommend that to do strengthening exercises, you do them well below your aerobic threshold and that you do maybe 30 secs (of very slow movement) and then stop for 90 secs. I think the idea is that it's going over your aerobic threshold that causes PEM. That's what all that CPET/VO2-max stuff is about (that's my understanding, at any rate).

    I've asked on another thread whether doing few reps a long time (hours, for example) will be effective in training muscles and I think the idea is that you have to tire the muscle at least somewhat, but you can do that without going over your aerobic threshold.
     
  8. Sushi

    Sushi Senior Member Albuquerque

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    First off, I am a moderate patient not a severe one and am able to do a once a week core-training, pilates done lying down with machines. I have done it for years. Does it reduce OI? Not to my knowledge. For a few hours after a class, my leg muscles are activated and filled with blood. I think that sort of works like a compression sock and yes, my OI is better. But the next day, not at all.
    At the time and for a few hours afterward, my experience is yes.
    Not in my experience. However, I continue with it for general health reasons--and to be able to lift a bag of groceries!
    Again, I'm moderate not severe. I do it lying down with my HR monitor as my guide. If my HR goes over my limit, I stop and wait for it to go down. In this way I don't get PEM.
     
  9. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    I think I'm still failing to explain my question! :confused:

    I'm not talking about short-term benefits, even on the scale of a few days. I mean that if you trained for three months, and then stopped training, would the strength you'd built up mean that your OI was better than it was three months previously?

    I'm not talking about short-term effects on post-exercise increased blood circulation.

    Apologies for not making myself clearer! o_O
     
  10. Sushi

    Sushi Senior Member Albuquerque

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    From my experience, no. And I have been working on core strength and leg muscles for years. It is a very short-term benefit for me.
     
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  11. Mij

    Mij Senior Member

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    I think it would be difficult to know having both M.E and OI. Sometimes I can not tell if my symptoms are from M.E or OI.

    It seems to be short term benefit for me.
     
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  12. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    Did you start your training after you had OI? Or were you already in such good nick that there might not have been much scope for improvement?
     
  13. Sushi

    Sushi Senior Member Albuquerque

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    I already had OI. Initially I had hopes that core training and leg training would improve it.
     
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  14. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    Ah. Sorry it didn't work.

    I've got so little core strength I'm wondering if there's maybe more scope for improvement but I do wonder if the idea is all theory and zero evidence. I wonder if there's ever been an RCT.
     
  15. Sushi

    Sushi Senior Member Albuquerque

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    We are each individuals and there is always hope!

    Aside from that, if one is able to do core training without getting PEM, there are a lot of benefits in not being a flabby bag of muscle and skin!
     
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  16. IreneF

    IreneF Senior Member

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    No, absolutely not. I was exercising (aerobics, weights, core, hiking, yoga) while my symptoms were increasing. It just made everything worse. I had to give it all up.

    One of my issues is that I made a lot of effort to keep myself healthy, and I might as well have been a couch potato. In fact, I might be better off if I had been.
     
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  17. Scarecrow

    Scarecrow Revolting Peasant

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    An RCT. Dare to dream!

    I suppose there's another way of thinking about this: I have mild ME and when I crashed recently, my OI was temporarily markedly worse for a few months but especially for the first few weeks. I didn't suddenly lose core strength. Something entirely different was going on.

    Is core strength not meant to counter act pooling in the abdomen? I know you've posted before about not being able to wear compression tights but I can't remember if you have tried one of those corset thingumys. Surely it would have a similar effect to increased core strength.
     
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  18. Sushi

    Sushi Senior Member Albuquerque

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    @Sasha I have also tried the "corset thingumys." :cool: I'd say that core strength would be similier....if you could discipline yourself to activate it continuously. This would mean holding "tummy to spine" and active gluts. Hard to remember unless you are sort of a professional at it.
     
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  19. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    Yes, that's the theory - most of the blood pools in the abdomen ('splanchic pooling'). I tried an actual corset and it did help a bit, but not enough to make it worth it. But it made me wonder if the core stuff would give me a similar marginal (or bigger) improvement.

    Someone kindly PMed me that they ended up with a sixpack and it didn't help.

    But I'm such a blob of low muscle tone at the moment... I look like a pregnant lolly stick. :cry:
     
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  20. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    I was hoping just the higher muscle tone would be enough! I've seen on YouTube those fighter pilots in training doing the muscle-clenching and it clearly works but it's a lot of work - too much energy output.
     

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