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Have any smokers switched to using electronic vapourisers?

Discussion in 'Lifestyle Management' started by peggy-sue, Jul 10, 2013.

  1. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

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    I realise that smoking is a big no-no for many folk, particularly with ME, but it's something I've never been able to quit - I imagine others might have the same trouble.
    However, I did give up tobacco on the 16th of November last year, and now very happily use an electronic vapouriser. I switched over gradually, and I suffered a bout of mild depression for a couple of months, just couldn't get any joy out of anything (it really, really spoiled November 5th fireworks night for me!), but it did soon lift.

    By 6 months on, I could really, really feel the benefits of the extra oxygen and lack of carbon monoxide.
    I haven't put weight on, and I do have a fair bit more energy.

    I do know that the percieved "wisdom" (of the puritans who still drink alcohol and tea and coffee) is to be "drug-free" but nicotine is a cognitive enhancer, and in itself, in the doses used, it's not much different to a cup of coffee - just a mild natural stimulant.

    If anybody is a smoker, unable to give up cigarettes, I really would very highly recommend trying the electric ones.
  2. rosie26

    rosie26 Senior Member

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    hi peggy-sue

    I went into ME as a smoker, I couldn't bear to a have a cigarette the first 3 months of my illness, was just to deathly ill. But the anxiety got to me and started having the odd one again and off I went again.
    I have just not been strong enough to quit, too much anxiety and I know I would get too depressed ( that empty feeling of loss).

    I have tried e- cigarettes, but the one I bought had no nicotine in it and I also had to go and read an article about an e-cigarette exploding in someone's face !!!! Which made me worried every time I took a puff on the thing.

    I think I really would need to have the one with a bit of nicotine in it. I tried to find it here but didn't have much success. I did ask in a dairy recently about the nicotine one and they said they had it. I was a bit surprised as I didn't think it was available here. But now that you have brought it up and have had good results with it , I think I will look at having a go. It would be so good to kick it. I feel like I am not helping myself to get well by continuing to smoke. And I do want to get well. Will let you know how I go, but could take a while. x
    aimossy likes this.
  3. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

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    Where do you live?
    I bought my first one from a local chemist, one of the ones that looks like a cigarette, but after I made the complete changeover, a shop opened up in my high street, selling the refillable vapourisers. They seem to be far morre ecologically sound - I hated having to contribute all the cartridges to waste, and the shop had a liquid with a flavour so-oooo good that, compared to a real cigarette, it was like finding real coffee after instant, or Belgian dark chocolate after carob.
    I know different countries are having different reactions to them.
    The earlier ones, all made in China, did have some problems with quality control and purity, but there are now loads of good ones made elsewhere. I've done a lot of research - I think the exploding one was an early, badly made one.

    There's a LOT of "bad mouthing" of them. Tobacco companies see them as a threat to their profits (and are now heavily investing in them) big pHarma doesn't like them because they're a threat to profitable (and ineffective) "nicotine replacement therapy", governments don't like them because they don't get enough tax from them.
    Then there's the puritanical mob who are only satisfied by total abstinence.

    There has been one paper published which is being touted as "proof" they are harmful - it has been found that using one restricts the airways a bit, for about 10 minutes.

    They did not compare this to smoking a tobacco cigarette, to see if they also restrict airways.

    What you need to consider is the safety in comparison to carrying on with tobacco.
    The official statistic on that (I think) is that they are about 99.7% less harmful.

    The percieved "wisdom" is that what smokers want is the "hand-to-mouth" action. What a load of garbage!
    It's the taste and the mouth feel, it's the inhalation, the feel of the smoke hitting the back of your throat, followed by the relaxation of exhalation accompanied by the nicotine hitting your brain.

    The vapourising system I use contains only pharmaceutical grade nicotine, the carrier (perfectly safe stuff) and the flavour, and is entirely made in the uk. I love it, I enjoy it far more than I ever did cigarettes.
    I'm also saving a fortune.
    The cost of living has gone up so much recently I'm not really noticing - but if I was still smoking, it would be far worse.

    It does take time to get used to them - I used both for about 5 months, gradually increasing electric and decreasing tobacco, before one day, when I was down in my plan to have just one in the morning and one in the evening, for the last two days of tobacco, I lit my morning one, then thought to myself; "What am I doing this for? I've got the electric one. I put it out, half way through it, and used the electric one, converting completely before I'd planned to.

    And I don't stink any more. :thumbsup: My OH (a non-smoker) is absolutely delighted.
    (And I don't know how he ever put up with it :zippit: )

    My throat hurt a bit to start with. Apparently this is normal, because your airways and their surfaces are badly damaged by the smoke, and so can react a bit to the carrier (PEG) but this stops as soon as the surfaces heal.

    Then there's the usual dry, unproductive, smoker's cough, but after a few months, the cilia in the lungs start to heal and work again, and the cough becomes a good productive one, as you start to get rid of all the gunk in your lungs.

    The loads of extra energy comes a bit before that!

    What positive reseach has found is, that for folk who find it absolutely impossible to give up, these can be happliy substituted for tobacco. In terms of harm reduction, they are an incredible boon.
    rosie26, Valentijn and Kina like this.
  4. Firestormm

    Firestormm Senior Member

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    I haven't been able to read all of your comments here Peggy-sue. But I have 'switched' almost to e-cigarettes now. I do find that nicotine works for me as a stimulant but couldn't get on with the patches. I like to 'smoke' and hold something I suppose.

    However, I do enjoy tobacco and will when out for a wander smoke a roll-up. I'd smoke better tobacco once again if I could afford it but alas and alack I canne :) It is my incentive to walk - my carrot if you will to exercise - and it provides a good excuse for me to sit down in public and rest :oops:

    I did have a poll and thread running about stimulants and we were talking more about nicotine and caffeine there. It might well be that my association of stimulant and 'doing more' concentrating for longer etc. is but a figment of my imagination - but there we go.... :D
    aimossy, peggy-sue and rosie26 like this.
  5. Firestormm

    Firestormm Senior Member

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    Hmmm.... well with my nicolites I am afraid to say the economics do not always stack up. I was chatting to Mark the other week about our use of these 'alternates' and he uses the 'drip your own' variety. They could be more economic I suppose - but I still find that if I am trying to do more mentally - or indeed relaxing for longer without sleeping - i.e. fighting off the fatigue: I will use more.

    It's a bit of a con I think. My cartridges say 'equivalent of 20 cigarettes' but they don't last as long as 20 cigarettes! What they mean is that they contain as much nicotine. Now I am not even sure I believe that - but OK fair enough. My point is that if you compared cost to duration of smoking - traditional cigarettes might win.

    Anyway, I am having to cutback as it was getting too expensive. I might switch to Mark's alternative. Will have to see. Currently, it is convenient for me to buy these nicolites. Although I do like the cherry flavour - I stick with tobacco :)
    aimossy likes this.
  6. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

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    The drip system is a LOT cheaper than nicolites, Firestormm, which is what I started with.
    I did smoke ordinary fags (the cheapest) not rollies, and did not resort to the black market. So in my situation, it is miles cheaper.
    One bottle of "juice" lasts 5 days, if I buy 5 at once, it's £22 for the lot. 25 days worth for 3 packs of fags - 4 days worth.
    The system was ~ £40 all inclusive of spares and charger and fancy carry case.

    The nicolites were about half the cost of my fags, maybe slightly more.
    I agree, one thingy didn't seem to be a whole pack equivalent.

    I had problems when both the cartridge and the battery were running down at the same time, but it wasn't until I had made a complete change that I decided to go for the drip system. At first, I simply couldn't stand the look of them, I liked a thing that looked like my cigarette.
    I agree, one thingy didn't seem to be a whole pack equivalent.

    And none of the flavours can match the "T5" juice I use. (ghastly, unimaginitive name for something that tastes of the smell of biscuits cooking or good, buttery popcorn, with a slight edge of cigar.)

    It does take some time to adjust. You don't end up smoking a "whole cigarette's worth" all jam-packed into the 8 minutes a cigarette lasts, you tend to put it down and just puff occassionally.

    You need to learn to adjust to this different way of getting your nicotine.

    Talking to other folk who smoke rollies, they seem to find changing over to electric harder than folk who smoke ordinary ones.

    I think it's to do with how you've learned to suck them...

    It's not your imagination that it helps your brain work a bit better. Nicotine IS a cognitive enhancer.
    Firestormm likes this.
  7. Firestormm

    Firestormm Senior Member

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    have you a linky to a product please? yer a good wee lassie :)
    LaurieL and rosie26 like this.
  8. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

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    http://www.flavourvapour.co.uk/

    That's the one I'm using. When I went into the shop at first, the folk running it said they'd all tried loads of different systems and they liked this one best, which is why they got together to open the franchise. I didn't try others, because the shop is right there, easy for me to get to, and if I have problems, they're there to fix them for me. And I could have a try of several different flavours and strengths. One puff of my T5, and that was it. I wasn't interested in trying anything else.
    Since the shop opened, it's been permanently busy, they've had to take on several more staff, and there are a whole load of folk around here using them.

    Editing to add:-

    I am very concerned about seeming to promote/advertise one particular product.

    There are many, many different systems, all easily found on the net. The reason I chose the one I did is purely because there is a brick and mortar shop just 5 minutes walk from me.
    I don't like buying unseen and unfelt stuff on the net. I do like dealing with human beings I can ask questions of.
    Firestormm likes this.
  9. Firestormm

    Firestormm Senior Member

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  10. rosie26

    rosie26 Senior Member

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    Thanks peggy-sue and also firestormm. I'm going to check all your info out and see if I can get hold of the above. Will let you know further down the track what happens xx
    aimossy, peggy-sue and Firestormm like this.
  11. caledonia

    caledonia

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    My BF smokes hand rolled cigarettes. He tried one of the e cigs and thought it was very harsh and didn't like it.
  12. caledonia

    caledonia

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    I found some research regarding tobacco and dopamine. People with low dopamine are more likely to be addicted to these substances, as they raise dopamine. So you need them to feel more or less normal, and this makes it harder to get off. You're supposed to be able to supplement with dopamine enhancing supps to ease the transition.

    http://www.naturalnews.com/036601_nicotine_dopamine_smoking_addiction.html
    http://premium.naturalnews.tv/14AndOut__TV.htm

    So my BF is MTHFR A1298C + which can cause low dopamine. He's like the poster child for low dopamine. I have him on some dopamine supps, but he's not cooperating with the rest of the process (trying to quit). :thumbdown:
  13. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

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    The harshness is because the carrier irritates the already smoke-damaged throat surfaces, Caledonia.
    Once that heals, which is fairly quickly, it stops.

    The nicotine can still be absorbed through the mouth cavity. You don't actually need to inhale it, just take it into the mouth and hold it for a wee while - like a cigar smoker does.

    Folk who smoke rollies do seem to find that a bigger problem than folk who are on bought ciggies.
    (I keep calling them fags - a uk term, but have just realised it means something else elsewhere!)

    I'm pretty sure that my nicotine affiliation is for the same reason as my affiliation for caffeine. Self-medication of ADHD.
    This is a theory supported by Prof. David Balfour - a world authority on nicotine addiction.

    He has also found that among all the other chemicals in smoke, are some tricyclic antidepressant family ones.
    He suspects they might have a strongly reinforcing role, because nicotine itself isn't nearly as addictive as "touted".
    (I used to work beside him and attended an informal public science lecture he gave on this topic.)

    That might explain my 2 month period of emotional flatness. But I was able to cope with it because I still had my beloved "habit".
    Firestormm likes this.
  14. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    Indeed, a rather embarrassing mistake to make!

    For anyone who's confused, here's part of a South Park episode which explains how Americans use the term:
  15. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

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    I find the US use of the word "pants" to be embarrassing - pants here are your underpants/knickers, we call "pants" trousers. And a purse is the small thing you keep your change in, inside your handbag.
    Valentijn likes this.
  16. Kina

    Kina Moderation Team Lead

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    My Welsh sister-in-law finds 'fanny pack' to be quite amusing :)
    aimossy and peggy-sue like this.
  17. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

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    I find it quite shocking, :p until I remember... :redface:
  18. caledonia

    caledonia

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    I agree that the big problem with getting off cigarettes is that they affect neurotransmitters (dopamine being one). When you quit, your neurotransmitters will need some time to rebalance. So in the meantime, you'll feel mental/emotional symptoms like people are reporting here.
    aimossy and peggy-sue like this.
  19. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

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    Once you're an addict, I don't think your neurotransmitters ever recover. You just have to suffer when you give up and find ways of dealing with it.
    Or perhaps it's natural low levels that make addicts?
  20. caledonia

    caledonia

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    Yes, low levels make people susceptible to becoming addicts. The low levels can be caused by genetic mutations in the methylation genes plus whatever environmental stressors caused the genes to become expressed.

    You can fix neurotransmitters via methylation supplements and fixing whatever environmental things need to be fixed.

    For example, you may have gotten some mercury fillings as a kid. That caused methylation to slow down so you made less neurotransmitters. Once methylation slowed down, you also had problems detoxing metals, so the metals continue to accumulate and slow down methylation - a vicious cycle. Now you start smoking cigarettes and accumulate more metals.

    So, you quit the cigarettes, then work on restoring methylation, which will raise neurotransmitters, and help to detox metals. You may also need to do additional metal detox on top of that (such as Cutler's protocol).

    Of course, these things will also help ME/CFS and whatever other methylation diseases may have accumulated over your lifetime.

    See the Methylation Made Easy videos for a list of diseases caused by poor methylation - the link is in my signature.
    peggy-sue likes this.

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