Review: 'Through the Shadowlands’ describes Julie Rehmeyer's ME/CFS Odyssey
I should note at the outset that this review is based on an audio version of the galleys and the epilogue from the finished work. Julie Rehmeyer sent me the final version as a PDF, but for some reason my text to voice software (Kurzweil) had issues with it. I understand that it is...
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Has vitamin K-2 (mk-4 or mk7) helped you ?

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Hanna, Apr 10, 2012.

  1. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Please keep us posted!
     
  2. Ambient

    Ambient

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    Was wanting to know if there is any benefit to taking MK4 using the drops version over the capsule versions?
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    I was wanting to experiment taking MK4, but it's rather expensive.
    Even more expensive if it actually ends up working and I want it to become a piece of my supplement puzzle.
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    I was wanting to start with 5mg daily, broken into 2-3x per day. (I'm 29 years of age & about to be 30)

    The drops version would be much easier to take.
    The capsule version would require me to purchase capsules to split the 15mg capsule into 3-4-5's, but this really isn't an issue since I could get it all done in one go and save a lot of $$ in the process.
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    ~COST ADVANTAGE

    ~Oil drops
    Thorne is around $65 for 1200mg.

    ~Capsule form
    $30 for 1350g


    Thorne = $0.054 per mg
    Capsule = $0.022 per mg


    So as you can see, the capsules are around 2.5x less expensive.
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    I guess I'm just under the impression that, considering that k2 is fat soluble, that it being in an oil base would make it more effective. I read that some people supplement it with a fatty meal of some sorts, so maybe this shouldn't matter all that much?


    Thanks for any feedback.
     
  3. aaron_c

    aaron_c Senior Member

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    I take the capsule form, and I have found it to work just fine when I take it away from food. I understand the argument for taking it with fat...but it hasn't seemed to matter for me.
     
  4. sflorence

    sflorence Senior Member

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    I am so glad that you found something that worked! Hallelujah!

    What brands were you taking? I am going to try something similar to you. I just started taking MK4, but I want to take MK7 as well.
     
  5. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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  6. sflorence

    sflorence Senior Member

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    Well I am back with a quick update on how it went for me.

    I have tried 2 forms of K2 with no luck. I think I know why it didn't do anything for me, though.

    1) Carlson Mk4 5mg.
    -I took up to 25mg of these daily, with fat, for about 2 week. I noticed my teeth were a bit smoother.

    2) Jarrow mk7 90mcg
    -I took up to 1mg of this daily, for about 1 week, with no results either.

    I think my problem is that I don't absorb any fats, therefor I don't absorb any fat based nutrients. I just received labwork that showed I am deathly low in all my fatty acids. I will get my digestion back on track and try this again.
     
    Little Bluestem likes this.
  7. SusanH

    SusanH

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    Austin, Texas
    Every time I take Vit K2 I sustain some sort of tendon injury. On the two occasions that I I took Vit K2 for over a week, I sustained a tendon sprain/tear in each of my elbows, both of which occurred after a very innocuous minor movement of my arm; crippling pain/loss of use and takes months to recover each time. And I can feel joint instability in other areas and am terrified I will blow out a knee or hip next if I keep taking it. I take optimal calcium and magnesium and other supplements. Anyone else have this intolerance?
     
  8. Lolinda

    Lolinda POTS + MCAS

    Reasonable explanation indeed. Why dont you try it on empty stomach, in the morning, an hour or more before breakfast? That way it would not mix with all the other fats you take, so it does not ending up in stool with all the other fats (-> vitamin rich, expensive poop, good soil fertilizer :D ). It would come in direct contact with the gut epithelium and some of it would get resorbed. Maybe take the high dosage Thorne K2 in liquid form, which is mixed with fat. 1 drop is 1 mg of K2.
    https://www.thorne.com/products/dp/vitamin-k2-liquid
    That way surely you absorb a really good amount, even if not 100%. People usually complain that this product is too expensive. But do a calculation how much K2 you get with the cheap K2 products and with this one. That may change the equation in many cases. I think @Gondwanaland knows a high dosage and cheap K2. In any case, with K2 one can go high and this will help against resorption issues.

    I take it transdermally, which is a further alternative. I found all vitamins and minerals and even amino acids to absorb perfectly well. It depends on molecular size, so huge molecules wont go through. I summarised my experiences here:
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...complex-and-minerals.25743/page-2#post-743764
    If you look at the following link you see that K2, in particular the MK-4 form, is a small molecule that is absolutely in the size of other vitamins:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_K2

    Having said that, actually, why do you expect any effect in 2 weeks? Depending on what you are looking for, many studies report great effects in 1-3 years! - For example for increasing the cartillage on joints or for decreasing osteoporosis. I can give studies on that if this is what you should be looking for.

    To make sure, however, that all your hope taking K2 is not in vain, I would take a test. Both in the beginning, to find out if you have any deficiency at all, and after a while to see if you resorb and improve and dont wait 3y in vain!! 3y of suffering weigh more than the bucks, imo. Spectracell has it in the MNT panel. It is expensive, but it is a really innovative test that produced for me results no other test has found. Or, there is a method for testing the carboxylated vs undercarboxylated osteocalcin ratio, which is THE scientifically validated test for K2 deficiency. Finding a lab for that you should not believe any doctor can do for you, but search yourself... If it is of interest, I think I can dig out a lab for that, I think I had found one.

    What I am not aware of and would like to learn how fast one can expect neurological results. I guess that would be many times faster than bones, cartillages, etc.
    @sflorence
    @Gondwanaland @aaron_c @Mikemcd ? Anyone?
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2016
  9. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

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    For me, the liquid Thorne K2 MK-4 product had good neurological effects within like 20 minutes of first dose. Tooth pain and demineralisation took a bit longer to begin reversing. A week or two if I recall correctly.
     
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  10. posthaste

    posthaste

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    How many drops were you taking per day?
     
  11. posthaste

    posthaste

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    I heard Chris Masterjohn mention in a recent podcast that vitamin K2 places demands on Zinc stores. Might want to check that.. Also, make sure vitamin D level is good, too.
     
  12. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

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    Initially just one. These days I take two or three. If I take more than that, my electrolytes seem to get messed up.
     
  13. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

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    Vitamins K2, D and A work in concert. I found that taking K2 on its own caused problems by exposing an underlying longstanding vit D deficiency. When I started taking D3, I developed a toxicity very quickly even though I was only doing 100 IU (not a typo) a day. This resolved once I added some vit A in the form of retinyl palmitate. I also had to up my Ca and Mg supplementation way way up to be able to tolerate K2. There may also be other missing cofactors like boron.
     
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  14. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    What symptoms did you have from D 'toxicity'? I can't seem to take any without getting bone spurs within 2-3 days. And have a feeling that I'm not getting enough calcium either, although I seem to only tolerate that from food...

    So complicated.
     
  15. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

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    Pain in kidneys, tendons, muscles. Also feeling worse than usual overall.

    Calcium - I couldn't tolerate that either until I bumped up K2 and it caused hypocalcemia. Now I HAVE TO take it.
     
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  16. Mikemcd

    Mikemcd

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    For me: K2 is a miracle drug. It went through my body like a whirlwind. Got rid of some brain fog, then after a week, all hell broke loose. My spine locked up, so I crawled on my hands and knees to my car, then off to the Emergency Room. Took me 20 minutes to get on the examining table. They took x-rays, and said there was nothing they could do for me, as everything looked normal. They thought all I wanted was Opiates, like all the other bums in there. They sent me home with Oxycontin. Fools. My back got better after a week, then I noticed cracking of my spine? I'm 67 and my spine hasn't cracked in 30 years. All my joints started to loosen up. My posture improved dramatically. I pee like I am a teenager. I think it even dissolved the small cataracts in my eyes. (the sun doesn't give me eye fog) Now after 8 months my skin, my elbows, my face, the wrinkles are going away. Jesus. Weston Price, where are you?
     
  17. Mikemcd

    Mikemcd

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    Your problem is you are too young. K2 is a miracle vitamin for old people who have stored calcium inappropriately in their bodies. We are the ones who notice the changes.
     
    sflorence likes this.
  18. Violeta

    Violeta Senior Member

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    @Mikemcd , thank you for the K2 update. Do you eat dairy? For me the calcium in dairy doesn't seem to go where it's supposed to go even when I take K2. When I stop eating dairy I don't know if I should continue to take K2 or not. If anyone else has an opinion on this, too, I would appreciate it. TIA
     
  19. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Could you please illustrate it?
     
  20. SherDa

    SherDa

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    Maybe improving bile flow would help (if you still have a gallbladder) or taking something like Jarrow Bile Acid Factors?
     

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