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Has anyone "pushed through" "exitoxicity" type sypmtoms?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Adster, Aug 15, 2012.

  1. Adster

    Adster Senior Member

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    When I take supps that give me energy, like b2, NAC, ATP, high doses of mb12, at varying points I run into symptoms that are often described as exitoxicity.

    For me it starts as a day of feeling noticeably better, then a night of poor sleep. The next days are usually very uncomfortable, with feelings of all my nerves being "exposed" and an emotional anguish that is really hard to describe; it's like a build up of emotions with no reasons behind them. Sleep is nearly impossible and high doses of melatonin are needed. Usually 2-3 days of this is all I can handle and I have to drop which ever supp was causing it.

    Anyway, I'm wondering if anyone has pushed through this and found benefit in doing so. Or is it just suffering for no benefit?
  2. newradost

    newradost

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    taniaaust1 likes this.
  3. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    No, but I'm prone to seizures, ataxia and TIAs so I don't think it's a good idea. I ended up in the ER due to a 2 hour seizure that I don't care to experience ever again. I was pushing myself with caffeine at the time. Oh and cheating with gf foods. DOH !!! I already knew that both of these were excitotoxins for me.

    I just started taking ADB12 again and I had to stop it the last time due to excitotoxicity (sp? real word ?). Like you I couldn't sleep and during the day I had the jittery feelings too.. Massive amounts of sleep supplements (9 mg melatonin, 300 mg theanine and 300 mg 5HTP) worked but then I was brain dead the next day.

    If this happens again, I'm going to take Himalaya Liver care and maybe other liver support supplements to see if it helps. If that fails, I have Klonopin and Theanine on hand if it gets out of control. So far both of these help but in varying degrees. I'll have to play with the dosage so I'm not a zombie.

    tc ... x
  4. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    Adster

    I was just about to post a thread with the same content!
    Good that you did. I also experience insomnia, emotional outbursts, and a very wired feeling in my nerves, like feeling on the edge. It is not at all comfortable to deal with. I have not started taking adb12 now, but I get the feeling with high doses of mb12. I tried melatonin but it gives me sleep for some time just for the sake of sleep. The quality of sleep is however, not good at all. Dreams and thoughts are not relaxed and over-stimulation just doesn't seem to end. Yesterday was the worst day I experienced and I tried out Niacin for the first time, as I was considering myself to be over-methylated. It did mildly help,though. I have tried benzodiazepines also during such phases and they seem to help. Anything that would provide a bit of calmness is required as SOS in such phases.

    I have also been wondering whether this is a phase we have to go through, or is it just unnecessary pushing my body. I did read some threads relating to the "Wired" feeling and most of us seem to be facing it.
    I am confused as what could this be:
    1. Detox/ Startup?
    2. Over methylation?
    3. Activation of the nervous system brought about by the supplements,which is a positive thing?

    I really want to know the truth. I have also stopped my supplements for today as it takes a while to get over that hellish experience, if I may call it.
  5. freshveggies

    freshveggies Senior Member

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    I have added in 500mg gaba at breakfast and lunch and then take valerian when needed. It has really helped. I have a CBS +/- and for me going lower protein has helped too.
  6. Red04

    Red04 Senior Member

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    Potassium subdued a lot of my wifes startup symptoms. A bunch of it. 3 99mgs in the AM, 3 99mgs in the PM, and 3x 99mg every 45 minutes with a glass of water until symptoms subsided in between.

    And it was scary, and she would get crazy emotions, and flush red skin, and weird nervous feelings, and muscle cramping, and "pointed" headaches, and I don't remember what else. There is no way she would have stayed on it without me or someone else pushing her to do it. 22 months later we had our first child, she ran a triathalon, and hasnt been to a doctor or taken prescription medication since.

    She also hovered on the low end of the potassium range for the 2 years of blood work she had done before methylation treatment.

    I doubt everyone has the same experience, but this was ours. Good Luck!
    Skyline likes this.
  7. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    wow, that's a lot of potassium...how did u figure out she needed that much?
  8. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    I read somewhere that around 4000 mg of potassium is required daily. I also try to cover around 3000 mg everyday (diet which includes bananas,coconut water and supplements). Potassium does help with many symptoms, both mental and physical. But the over stimulation I have described above, I experienced it even when I had taken my potassium quota for the day.
  9. Red04

    Red04 Senior Member

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    Freddd told us so. And the muscle cramping was the "red flag". I think its commonly accepted that low potassium = cramping. It was a little trial and error. I wasn't scared to ramp up the potassium as the RDA is really high. So if it took 1000 mgs (10 x 99mg pills) to get her to stop cramping, that would put you at the low end of what you need. Your body could probably handle another 3000mgs (30X 99mgs) no problem. I think its hard to over do it, IMO.

    We weren't going to stop the supplements, so we just kept adding the cofactors until she wakes up with cramps or a headache and repeat.

    Research low potassium symptoms extensively and monitor them closely, this was our default cofactor.
  10. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    excellent. thanks.
  11. Red04

    Red04 Senior Member

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    I don't know how long you tried it, but we followed the symptoms, not the RDA or quota. I want to say the startup lasted about a month. 2 weeks without "heavy potassium supplementation" and 2 weeks with heavy potassium. There was still start up, and it was bad, and you probably need someone to help push you, put you in a bed, calm you down, massage cramps out, count down 45 minutes for the next dose, get a cool rag for your pointed head ache, etc....

    I think Freddd or others said you might need significantly more than the RDA. When the symptoms would start, she would take 3x99mgs until it went away. Regardless of how many avacados or bananas she ate.
  12. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    Thanks for sharing your experience. I have made my own quota. I take 4000 mcg of mb12 daily and through trial and error, I have come to a conclusion that I need around 3000 mg of potassium daily. So the quota is self defined, not the RDA or any other reference. However, I do take extra potassium whenever I feel worse. Sometimes it helps, other times it does not, which means there must be other factors responsible for the over-stimulation.

    But I am a bit cautious with potassium. I do not take too much, because that can be risky too. I wish I had some apparatus to measure my potassium levels on my own, to infer the cause of symptoms at a particular time. Are there any kits available for that?
  13. Asklipia

    Asklipia Senior Member

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    arx, this is discussed here Had to call an ambulance because potassium got so low...
    Good luck,
    Asklipia
    arx likes this.
  14. Red04

    Red04 Senior Member

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    http://www.amazon.com/Horiba-Cardy-Potassium-Meter-C-131/dp/B006O12HS2

    http://hkpp.org/test-K-cardy-meter

    I have no idea if this thing works or not. Another thing you might do, is play with the potassium timing. If you have 1000mg for breakfast, it may not do you any good if you are taking methylfolate/b12 at noon. I dont know that my wife ever fealt "wired". Her nerves were on fire and she would shake her hands real hard to try to stop it. I don't think getting to sleep was a startup problem. But she may have had Rx sleeping medicine at that time.

    I dont recall exactly how we phased out all the Rx drugs. It was within the first month though.
  15. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    Thanks for the link.

    I'll check it out and play with the timings. How is your wife doing now?
  16. Red04

    Red04 Senior Member

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    She stays 95% healed as long as she keeps up with supplements. 3 days without and depression/anxiety will kick in. A week or so of sporadic supplementation and the fatigue will hit hard....

    Her sustained recovery has been miraculous. She isn't "cured" as she has to take the supplements. But, the symptoms are all but gone. A little acne, a little muscle cramping at night, a few moderate sleep issues. Getting complacent and missing dosages or getting tired of disolving b12 under tongue are the biggest battles....
  17. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    HI Adster--

    Excitotoxicity is my worst symptom, and I have it much of the time. It's been triggered by mB12, B2, astaxanthin, zeolite, lauricidin, or anything else that mobilizes heavy metals into my bloodstream. Unfortunately, I have a lot of those: lead, cadmium, arsenic, uranium, thallium. And once the Pandora's box of heavy metals is opened, it's really hard to get the lid back on! I have not yet found effective ways to neutralize and clear these toxins yet.

    I agree that they are extremely disruptive to restfulness and sleep, and though I have found a few things that calm my nerves during these episodes (tryptophan, magnesium, holy basil, theanine), those have just been bandaids.

    Taking potassium, in my case, was disastrous. I took about 500 mg of K citrate (spread out during) one day, after reading about it on this forum, and ended up having a night of very bad tachycardia. I have found that drinking coconut water is a much better option for me.
  18. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    That is really good to know. Good luck to both of you.
  19. Adster

    Adster Senior Member

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    Thanks for the ideas everyone. I take a fair bit of potassium but I don't think it does much for me really. Maybe I need more - I will experiment with some higher doses and see what happens. The one thing that does seem to help for a little while is DMSA, but I've been doing that for years now with no progress so I'm still unsure if mercury could still be causing this.
  20. Asklipia

    Asklipia Senior Member

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    OK, I know I am not going to be popular with this, but who knows, it may help somebody.

    The only thing that works for me in case of excitotoxicity (not completely, but enough to plunge me into a very deep slumber - kind of "I couldn't get up even if a truck was going to crush me" is this, pieces of which I kept when I was sicker in the deep freeze in case of emergency :
    You need the deep freeze part because in my experience when excitotoxicity hurts, you cannot do anything useful.

    On a good day then, boil a pigs head with as many ears as you can get from your butcher (with a couple of onions carrots parsley bay leaf pepper dash of organic apple vinegar (NO OTHER VINEGARS as = MSG) salt). When it is cooked (approx. two hours), cut up in small pieces and put in a big bowl -meat only you can eat the vegetables separately-, mix, taste the seasoning (not terribly important, you can always dip a piece in salt later on), put into a terrine, just cover with some of the broth. Let it set in the fridge. When it is set, cut up in cubes and freeze the cubes.

    It works even better with just trotters and ears (you have to debone the trotters after cooking but keep the cartilage of the ears it is important). The skin and the ears are the important parts. The problem is finding the ears as they are not for sale in most places. You can always say that they are for your dog.

    I have tried with other animals, it only works with pigs. Which would tend to refute the idea that is is the gelatin that does it. It is the gelatin of pigs that does it. I suppose that they are very similar to humans, that's why.

    I am afraid that after a while you may find it delicious, and be attracted to it as your saviour food, faithfully waiting in your freezer in case of pain. I never noticed any bad effects but keep in mind that if you gobble it up on a rainy day, it will have to be replaced.

    That overwhelming deep sleep is a holiday for your brain being repaired.
    Lots of good wishes,
    Asklipia
    :devil: FFP :devil:

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