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    Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of and finding treatments for complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia (FM), long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.

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Has anyone been completely cured of CFS?

Messages
60
Thank you for your thoughtful and considered response to my (and others) questions here regarding your experience with LP.
I confess I remain skeptical but am glad for you that you have found it works.
In your last post (#280) I'm still a bit squeamish about the idea that our responses to internal and external stimuli are inappropriate.
And I do have one more question for you regarding the efficacy of LP. I know I would feel more comfortable with the narrative of your experience if You would confirm for us here that you are in no way receiving compensation for sharing your experience here.
I'm sure you can understand why that would be information we'd want to know.

And if you are willing to continue to engage with us it would be great to know how this treatment works out for you long term.
Would you say that all your symptoms are 100% resolved?
Can you do any activity you want without experiencing any repercussions now?
And do you need to continue to use the techniques you learned from LP or is that no longer necessary?

If you could just clarify for me, in post #275 you mentioned your symptoms one of which is PEF, I don't know what that is.
Perhaps you didn't give the full laundry list of symptoms but from what you did write I'd like to point out that while your experience of these would have been quite debilitating it doesn't match the literally dozens of symptoms present in typical ME presentation. While you have the larger more familiar symptoms, pain fatigue, cognitive fog you don't seem to have any of the other symptoms that differentiate ME from any number of other illnesses. Dr's sometimes use the 'loose' Fukuda or Oxford criteria for diagnosis that essentially put anyone with lingering fatigue into the same bucket diagnostic wise.

Generally with ME other typical symptoms would be: various sleep disruption issues--unrefreshing sleep, sleep interruption, problems falling asleep, --migraines, severe and frequent vascular headaches especially ones that mimic sinus pain, --fasciculations, all over the body and frequent, --sensory issues, sensitivity to sound, light, smell, touch, sensitivity to temperature is very common and so on,
--heart related issues that can be related to POTS many and varied, --bowel symptoms many and varied, --autoimmune type symptoms, reynauds phenomena, dry eyes or Sjogrens syndrome, and many others.

With the exception of bowel issues, very common in ME I have chosen examples that I am familiar with from personal experience.
We all want to get well. Really we do. I just don't see how LP can effectively cure all this? What am I missing?

Thank you for your thoughtful and considered response to my (and others) questions here regarding your experience with LP. - my pleasure - I thought I had already responded to your post #291 but it hasn't appeared so here goes again

I confess I remain skeptical but am glad for you that you have found it works. - understand you are sceptical, so would I be if I hadn't had first hand experience of what I'm about to describe

In your last post (#280) I'm still a bit squeamish about the idea that our responses to internal and external stimuli are inappropriate. I used the term "inappropriate", but perhaps "unhelpful" would be better. For example, I used to suffer from panic attacks due to various stimuli (e.g. a very mild chest pain due to indigestion - a stimulus) which would lead to my body dumping adrenaline into my bloodstream due to me thinking (unconsciously) I was having a heart attack ( an unhelpful/inappropriate response to mild chest pain)

And I do have one more question for you regarding the efficacy of LP. I know I would feel more comfortable with the narrative of your experience if You would confirm for us here that you are in no way receiving compensation for sharing your experience here. This is an odd question to ask because if I were receiving some sort of compensation I would presumably be the sort of person who would have no compunction about lying and saying I wasn't even though I was! But anyhow, the answer is a categorical no, I am not. LP worked for me and I want visitors to this site to know that for some it can work, rather than they come away with the impression it's complete baloney and doesn't work for anyone, which is untrue.

I'm sure you can understand why that would be information we'd want to know.

And if you are willing to continue to engage with us it would be great to know how this treatment works out for you long term. OK, no problem, this forum will be the first to know if I relapse

Would you say that all your symptoms are 100% resolved? Yes

Can you do any activity you want without experiencing any repercussions now? I train at the gym 4 times a week (hardcore), I play golf and do the odd bout of High Intensity Interval training at home if I can't get to the gym. I've just come back from a walking holiday in Scotland. No repercussions

And do you need to continue to use the techniques you learned from LP or is that no longer necessary? I haven't for the last 3-4 months, but my colleague (see below) still has to now and again - with her, symptoms do come back (much milder than before) but she controls them with LP. I understand that I might need to use LP again if I start to relapse

If you could just clarify for me, in post #275 you mentioned your symptoms one of which is PEF, I don't know what that is. post exercise fatigue - I would feel a bit better, exercise and then crash horribly - this is a very common occurrence for those suffering ME/CFS

Perhaps you didn't give the full laundry list of symptoms but from what you did write I'd like to point out that while your experience of these would have been quite debilitating it doesn't match the literally dozens of symptoms present in typical ME presentation. While you have the larger more familiar symptoms, pain fatigue, cognitive fog you don't seem to have any of the other symptoms that differentiate ME from any number of other illnesses. Dr's sometimes use the 'loose' Fukuda or Oxford criteria for diagnosis that essentially put anyone with lingering fatigue into the same bucket diagnostic wise. I get the impression that in the UK at least, some patients (including me and my colleague) are dumped in an overarching bucket and might be misdiagnosed - which is why I was very careful to say visitors to this site who have been similarly misdiagnosed might benefit from LP. just because we've been misdiagnosed, it doesn't mean LP is hogwash.

Below I'll mark your text with either C (colleague) or D (D-ster) to describe the symptoms we had


Generally with ME other typical symptoms would be: various sleep disruption issues--unrefreshing sleep C/D, sleep interruption C/D, problems falling asleep C, --migraines C/D, severe and frequent vascular headaches especially ones that mimic sinus pain,C/D --fasciculations, all over the body and frequent, C - my colleague's tremors were unbelievably violent and terrifying to watch, I didn't suffer this thank God--sensory issues, sensitivity to sound, light, smell, touch, sensitivity to temperature is very common and so on,
--heart related issues that can be related to POTS many and varied,C had serious heart issues, including excruciating chest pain which has almost completely disappeared since LP --bowel symptoms many and varied, D (I suffered from chronic IBS which disappeared following LP - literally overnight - I have had one episode since January, strangely enough 2-3 days ago but that's it) --autoimmune type symptoms, reynauds phenomena, dry eyes or Sjogrens syndrome, and many others.

At the risk of repeating myself on this forum I'd like to describe my colleague's experience - she was basically bedbound during the weekends, and was brought into work by her husband for 2-3 hours a day. As her line manager I had to edit her emails before she sent them due to the cognitive issues her condition was causing. Its difficult to describe how ill she was for 4-5 years but it was awful to watch - utter fatigue, pain, depression, her diction and verbal communication skills were badly compromised, from being a long distance runner she went to taking 5 minutes to walk to the office down the corridor, a distance of maybe 80 feet. And yet the same woman on the evening of the first day of her LP program pulled her suitcase a mile from the course venue to the hotel she was staying at and then went for a short run. She returned to work 3-4 days later and other colleagues came in to see me and said "Have you seen L? She's better!" When I saw her for myself I was flummoxed - her face had colour, her eyes were bright, her gait was upright, she was moving at a normal pace, everything about her outward appearance was transformed. I and those other colleagues in the know were gobsmacked. And when I saw her, it was like that scene in the restaurant from When Harry Met Sally - "I want what she's having!"


With the exception of bowel issues, very common in ME I have chosen examples that I am familiar with from personal experience.

We all want to get well. Really we do. I just don't see how LP can effectively cure all this? What am I missing? If I could answer your final question Snowdrop I would - but I can't. It appears impossible, but I'm still well (I did LP in January) and my colleague is still well after 13 months. As a physicist I can understand some pretty weird shit about the universe, but I can't understand this. But everything I've said in this post is true - just because I can't explain it, doesn't mean it didn't happen. I wish you all the very best in your journey and thank you for taking the time to write and be civil - it means a lot to me
 
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Messages
60
I've seen enough of these "I swear guyz I am totally cured!!" stories to believe that there is something to these brainwashing programmes like CBT, LP etc. other than people being deluded or lying. It is certainly possible to temporarily flood the brain with enough dopamine, norepinephrine and endorphin to produce good mood, optimism and suppress inflammation and pain, giving the illusion of a cure, while the underlying infectious/immune disease process continues unabated. (People who are severely ill of course don't have the requisite cellular energy to recruit these hormonal responses so these types of programmes do not work for them even temporarily.) But the basic mechanism is comprehensible. At the end of the day, Rx and street drugs for mood disorders work much in the same fashion. Natural processes like a manic episode work the same way. There is an old truism that mania cures everything. It really does until the patient works themselves into exhaustion, sometimes death, or crashes into depression because of course this level of fake activity cannot be sustained forever and the eventual crash comes on, hard.
When does temporary become permanent? How long would you say?
 
Messages
60
I have never been there but that's what i would have expected. Actually it's even worse than i had expected.



They claim you can think yourself a tumor. Dster claimed this as well. The King's College also believes in the negative Personality/Cancer link.







Tell everyone how great you feel regardless of what is happening.



You are not allowed to say it doesn't work for me.



The followers are not allowed to question. Basically they brainwash people into reporting how great the program is and weed out anyone who doesn't. That helps recruit new followers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stage_hypnosis



Nothing more than a brainwashing cult.[/quo
Interesting. It really resembles a cult that thoroughly brainwashes people into denying reality:
I have never been there but that's what i would have expected. Actually it's even worse than i had expected.



They claim you can think yourself a tumor. Dster claimed this as well. The King's College also believes in the negative Personality/Cancer link.







Tell everyone how great you feel regardless of what is happening.



You are not allowed to say it doesn't work for me.



The followers are not allowed to question. Basically they brainwash people into reporting how great the program is and weed out anyone who doesn't. That helps recruit new followers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stage_hypnosis



Nothing more than a brainwashing cult.
there are so many inaccuracies in this post I simply haven't the time or the inclination to bother responding except to cite Roosevelt in 1910: "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly."
 

Tired of being sick

Senior Member
Messages
565
Location
Western PA USA
Cure no
Remission yes

We don't know either way for sure. I say cure because my colleague has not had a relapse now since July 2013, and I haven't since January this year. We both feel "cured".

How were you cured exactly?

popcorn.gif
 
Messages
60
We both (independently) went on the Lightning Process training program, her in July 2013, me in January 2014. Neither of us has had a relapse since the training, which is why we both feel "cured".
 

Tired of being sick

Senior Member
Messages
565
Location
Western PA USA
The Lightning Process
Evidence of efficacy from randomized trials is currently lacking (a clinical trial regarding chronic fatigue syndrome has been registered[1]). The approach has raised some controversy
IMO
This is geared toward people who lack self confidence,depression ETC..

So this will only help people who are basically head sick(if that)..

CFS/ME is as real as ALS/MS/ETC....

Lightening Process is nothing more than a scheme in attempt to sell to the desperately sick..

This is a goldmine for those who sell this crap,period.....
 
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Messages
60
I was quite sick, my colleague was very sick indeed. My previous posts describe her hideous suffering for 5-6 years. We were both diagnosed with CFS/ME. We have both been "cured" (inverted commas used to indicate I accept we might relapse). It is also possible we were both misdiagnosed. However The Lightning Process helped us immeasurably whether you like it or not. She was bed bound at the weekends, she now runs marathons. I would crash horribly if I walked round a golf course, I now exercise 5-6 times a week. Our experience also suggests that other visitors to this site either suffering from CFS/ME or having been misdiagnosed as we might have been could possibly benefit. To describe it as crap suggests it's ineffective for everyone - it isn't. And the term goldmine suggests charlatanism of the worst kind, taking advantage of very sick people. Our LP practitioner clearly wasn't a charlatan since she delivered a training program which had the desired effect.
 
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60
@Dster, how do we know that you're not just a LP salesman posting made up stories of miracle cures to lure in desperate patients? This is certainly a relevant question because every single post of yours praises LP as miracle cure.
Because I'm not, I'm a Business Unit Manager and Director of an NZ company headquartered in Auckland. I run their UK site. My name is Dr Philip Davies BSc, PhD, FCMI and you'll find me on LinkedIn if you look, where you'll even find an e-mail address. With this you can contact me to ensure I haven't just stolen some random guy's name and qualifications to hide my real job as an LP salesman (FFS, whatever next!). None of my posts praises the Lightning Process as a miracle cure. What they say is that I and my colleague (my female project manager) were both diagnosed with ME/CFS at different times, went through the Lightning Process and we both got better. I am open to the suggestion that we might have been misdiagnosed. The reason I keep posting is because some of this forum's posts nearly stopped me from using LP and if they had succeeded I almost certainly would still be ill. I want people who visit this forum (either suffering from ME/CFS or possibly having been misdiagnosed as suffering from ME/CFS) to know that the Lightning Process works for some people and is an option. If that makes me look like an LP zealot then that really is too bad - I don't care as long as I get the truth about our experiences across factually and without resorting to the irrational abuse that other posters appear to need to use when denigrating LP and me. And I'll post as often as I need to to refute yet another claim that LP is useless, a brainwashing cult, sinister, secretive, run by scum bags, equivalent to stage hypnosis (that one really made me smile), and that I think cancer is not a biological illness, I'm on valium, etc etc.
 
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60
It kind of does beg the question why you should care so much with such persistence in the face of such skepticism.
See my response to #307. "The reason I keep posting is because some of this forum's posts nearly stopped me from using LP and if they had succeeded I almost certainly would still be ill. I want people who visit this forum (either suffering from ME/CFS or possibly having been misdiagnosed as suffering from ME/CFS) to know that the Lightning Process works for some people and is an option" That, in a nutshell, is why I care so much.
 

A.B.

Senior Member
Messages
3,780
I want people who visit this forum (either suffering from ME/CFS or possibly having been misdiagnosed as suffering from ME/CFS) to know that the Lightning Process works for some people and is an option. If that makes me look like an LP zealot then that really is too bad - I don't care as long as I get the truth about our experiences across factually and without resorting to the irrational abuse that other posters appear to need to use when denigrating LP and me. And I'll post as often as I need to to refute yet another claim that LP is useless, a brainwashing cult, sinister, secretive, run by scum bags, equivalent to stage hypnosis (that one really made me smile), and that I think cancer is not a biological illness, I'm on valium, etc etc.

So far there have been no facts in your posts, merely some anecdotes And what you're claiming IS a miracle cure. Don't even try to argue otherwise. If no longer needing a wheel chair after a weekend of LP isn't a miracle cure, what is?

Until evidence exists which shows that the Lightning Process can cure the illnesses it claims to be able to cure, these claims will remain psychobabble. This isn't denigrating LP, this is just healthy scepticism. The hostility that you're encountering isn't irrational abuse, it's the reaction to you expecting us to take these claims at face value. Claiming that your wife's cancer was caused by psychological factors doesn't help your case either.

And the pseudoscience surrounding LP is also a reason to be suspicious.
http://scienceofcfsme.wordpress.com/2014/01/30/is-there-any-evidence-for-the-lightning-process/

The hypothesis that CFS is caused by a hyperactive sympathetic nervous system (ie. negative thoughts causing constant adrenaline release) is pretty much dead as far as I understand. If this hypothesis was correct, you should see overall improvement in CFS patients taking medication that inhibits the sympathetic nervous system. In a study patients did indeed have lower levels of adrenaline while taking this medication, but they got worse.
http://www.cortjohnson.org/blog/201...onidine-trial-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-fails/
 
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chipmunk1

Senior Member
Messages
765
I wonder if Phil Parker could revive a dead horse

for money yes.. for free probably not

Dster said:
Our LP practitioner clearly wasn't a charlatan since she delivered a training program which had the desired effect.

If you read some of the other reports you can see that most people didn't get the desired effect. If you claim it helps everyone and it doesn't get most better it's quackery.
 
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lansbergen

Senior Member
Messages
2,512
And I'll post as often as I need to to refute yet another claim that LP is useless, a brainwashing cult, sinister, secretive, run by scum bags, equivalent to stage hypnosis (that one really made me smile), and that I think cancer is not a biological illness, I'm on valium, etc etc.

So if you are ignored you will stop posting?
 
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60
So far there have been no facts in your posts, merely some anecdotes And what you're claiming IS a miracle cure. Don't even try to argue otherwise. If no longer needing a wheel chair after a weekend of LP isn't a miracle cure, what is?

Until evidence exists which shows that the Lightning Process can cure the illnesses it claims to be able to cure, these claims will remain psychobabble. This isn't denigrating LP, this is just healthy scepticism. The hostility that you're encountering isn't irrational abuse, it's the reaction to you expecting us to take these claims at face value. Claiming that your wife's cancer was caused by psychological factors doesn't help your case either.

And the pseudoscience surrounding LP is also a reason to be suspicious.
http://scienceofcfsme.wordpress.com/2014/01/30/is-there-any-evidence-for-the-lightning-process/

The hypothesis that CFS is caused by a hyperactive sympathetic nervous system (ie. negative thoughts causing constant adrenaline release) is pretty much dead as far as I understand. If this hypothesis was correct, you should see overall improvement in CFS patients taking medication that inhibits the sympathetic nervous system. In a study patients did indeed have lower levels of adrenaline while taking this medication, but they got worse.
http://www.cortjohnson.org/blog/201...onidine-trial-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-fails/

"I find it puzzling to read the kind of malignant comments some of your bloggers place on your web-site and else-where (from what I can see it’s often the same comments from a select group of individuals* in a variety of venues). I also find it interesting that some patients in the UK have received very derogatory comments, and even hate-mail after publicly claiming to have recovered using the LP." Dr Frivold April 30, 2010 here http://www.forums.aboutmecfs.org/content.php?114-An-MD-on-the-Lightning-Process. His wife had been diagnosed with CFS she went on the Lightning Process and like me and my colleague was cured. Subsequent to her cure she became a practitioner herself and is now helping others as she was helped. Of course on this forum this fact alone means she's a liar, a charlatan and anything her husband says on the matter is solely for commercial advantage! It really must be horrible to be that cynical. Some more from her husband: "I do not know of reliable long term statistics on the Lightning Process trainees, but from the people I personally know who have trained with this program – I am no less than amazed at the results. This includes patients who have been bed-ridden and wheelchair-bound.". And more "........I can understand that it is difficult to hear that some are making a recovery without the use of a sophisticated medical regimen. The suggestion of any mind-body component of this illness is understandably difficult to accept." And "Had we read the recent comments on your forums we would probably not have had the courage to pursue the training". Hear, hear!!!!!! (#310)
*Parker has independently come to the same conclusion in Chapter 8 of "An introduction to the Lightning Process" as have I during my forays here and checking who "likes" whose posts. An amusing little sideshow which always makes me smile.
Anecdotal it might be, but it is an irrefutable fact that the Lightning Process has indeed cured some of whatever it was they were suffering from. Unfortunately, dogma masquerading as reason prevents acceptance of this fact.
 

IreneF

Senior Member
Messages
1,552
Location
San Francisco
Lots of people say they have good experiences doing cure X, Y, or Z. The issue for many of is that we've already tried several of these so-called cures, maybe spent too much money, maybe had physical repercussions that sent us back to lying in bed for months. So we want more proof than someone who comes along telling us about a great new cure, that by the way isn't medical, has no hard evidence to back it up, and costs quite a bit of money.

Most of us are skeptical about psychologically or behaviorally oriented treatments because they can't treat what may be an infectious, inflammatory, or autoimmune process. Many of us have physiological markers that can be measured--markers of infection, NK cell dysfunction, orthostatic intolerance, and so on. You haven't provided any evidence that the LP can alter these. And you have N=2.
 
Messages
233
Dster,

By definition, you cannot be diagnosed with ME/CFS without ruling out many, many other possible conditions. As others have said, what tests have you had? What were your results? What medications have you tried or been prescribed?

Unless you were tested, you cannot have been correctly diagnosed with encephalomyelitis. It is the inflammation of the brain and/or spinal cord, which can only be found via specific testing. What test did you have which indicated this?



By your own reasoning, your issue was adrenaline, putting you into fight-or-flight. This may indicate a panic attack. A panic attack is not ME/CFS. It might be possible to talk yourself out of a panic with psychotherapy.

[Note: A surge of adrenaline results in a cortisol upswing, but ME/CFS is typically known for low-normal cortisol. A high cortisol level might be Cushing's syndrome.]

Alternatively, perhaps you were correctly diagnosed (and I'm humoring a best case scenario here), but experienced spontaneous remission while happening to undergo the Process. In this case, you would be incorrectly attributing a "cure" to the Process. The Process, even by its advocates, is known as a program, not a cure. You would have entered remission regardless.

It may also be possible that you were incorrectly diagnosed and were getting over a virus/bacteria. Your body simply fought it off. Sometimes, illnesses are self-limiting.



It would be good to familiarize yourself with the patient group for which you are selling a cure. See the CDC, CCC, and ICC criteria. Read the ICP Primer and IACFS/ME Primer.



Suggesting this Process can do more than just lighten people's wallets. It can actually harm people. As others have noted, attempting psychiatry for a physical illness can delay needed treatment and can make a person worse after they attempt to just "push through" their illness. As Kina noted, one person attempted suicide after being told that if they weren't getting better, they were to blame. All blame is laid on the patient if a bad result occurs.

Although I am for positive thinking, it needs to be done only supplementary to biological treatment for a biological illness. We also need to be realistic, not act like "Stepford Wives." To do otherwise is irresponsible.

People also don't need to shell out £500 (~$824 USD) to get an idea on the Process. They just need to read this:



Please read basic information on the placebo effect and brain washing. I'm serious. You may not know what you just went through. People used to sell "feet pads" that were supposed to turn black from absorbing "toxins" overnight. When tested, it was found the material turned black when applied to steam. Likewise, dubious practices are being done by religious cults, LGATS, and multi-level marketing (MLM).

The Process site claims were called misleading by the UK's Advertising Standards Authority (ASA). Similar ruling here.
". . . the pilot study conducted with the International Centre For Wellness Research reported positive results from a sample of 17 participants. However, we understood that the study was not controlled and had concluded that further investigation was necessary, with a larger sample size with wider inclusion criteria . . .

We considered that those studies and surveys did not constitute a suitably robust body of evidence to demonstrate the effectiveness of the LP in the treatment of CFS/ME. . .

Because Phil Parker Group had not supplied evidence to show that the LP could treat MS, eating disorders, addiction, depression and OCD and because reference to them could discourage readers from seeking essential treatment under the supervision of a suitably qualified health professional for them, we concluded that the claims were misleading for that reason also."


What is also interesting is they claimed 17 people reported positive in their study, with an 81.3% rating. Let's do the math:

13 / 17 = 76.5%

14 / 17 = 82.4%

Where do they get 81.3%? (Half-people?) Something doesn't add up here, either.


The best I can figure of you is that you are 1) a well-intentioned and potentially misdiagnosed Process fanatic, or 2) a Process marketer, or both. Assuming best case scenario, the indignation you are experiencing on PR is to be expected, because you are attempting to sell something that will not work for our biological illness. If you would not attempt to tell a person with their arm half-off to just think "happy thoughts" and they'd get better, rather than rush them to a hospital, then please do not do the same with us.

Personally, I would like to see you detail your before/after test results, medications, and supplements. Also, link to solid, controlled studies performed by more than one accredited scientific group, not Process advocates. Engage the community with more than pro-Process posts. Unfortunately, I have seen none of this from you. Whether well-intentioned or not, whether compensated or not, you come across as an advertiser.
 
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chipmunk1

Senior Member
Messages
765
Theories of mind control and religious conversion[edit]
Over the years various theories of conversion and member retention have been proposed that link mind control to some NRMs, particularly those religious movements referred to as "cults" by their critics. These theories resemble the original political brainwashing theories with some minor changes. Philip Zimbardodiscusses mind control as "the process by which individual or collective freedom of choice and action is compromised by agents or agencies that modify or distort perception, motivation, affect, cognition and/or behavioral outcomes",[30] and he suggests that any human being is susceptible to such manipulation.[31] In a 1999 book, Robert Lifton also applied his original ideas about thought reform to Aum Shinrikyo, concluding that in this context thought reform was possible without violence or physical coercion. Margaret Singer, who also spent time studying the political brainwashing of Korean prisoners of war, agreed with this conclusion: in her bookCults in Our Midst she describes six conditions which would create an atmosphere in which thought reform is possible.[32]

Approaching the subject from the perspective of neuroscience and social psychology, Kathleen Taylor suggests that manipulation of the prefrontal cortex activates "brainwashing", rendering a person more susceptible to black-and-white thinking.[33] Meanwhile, in Influence, Science and Practice, social psychologist Robert Cialdini argues that mind control is possible through the covert exploitation of the unconscious rules that underlie and facilitate healthy human social interactions. He states that common social rules can be used to prey upon the unwary. Using categories, he offers specific examples of both mild and extreme mind control (both one on one and in groups), notes the conditions under which each social rule is most easily exploited for false ends, and offers suggestions on how to resist such methods.[34]