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Has anybody tried Cryolipolyosis for weight loss - Is it safe?

Discussion in 'General Symptoms' started by raghav, Jun 22, 2017.

  1. raghav

    raghav Senior Member

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    Has any of you here tried Cryolipolyosis for weight loss ? I am weighing 230 pounds because of not being able to exercise or go for a long walk on a daily basis. Is this treatment safe ? Is it effective ? I am borderline diabetic. Impaired glucose tolerance. I have tried all the medicines in modern medicine. Unable to tolerate any. Only option available is daily Insulin injections. I dont want to go down that path. So will cryolipolyosis or body sculpting help ?
     
  2. Learner1

    Learner1 Professional Patient

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    Having CFS, it is hard to exercise much, so I feel your pain... However, it seems like cool sculpting would only offer you limited benefit.

    Three avenues that might be beneficial to look at would be hormones, microbiome, and diet (and not the diet you're probably familiar with).

    Most ME/CFS patients have HPA axis imbalances, thyroid issues, and many have imbalanced sex hormones. Having a full endocrine check, including pituitary and adrenal function, a full thyroid panel (including FT3, FT4, RT3, and antibodies) and a DUTCH test might be helpful in identifying and correcting factors causing you to be above your ideal weight.

    Most ME/CFS patients have SIBO and other gut microbiome issues. Certain bacteria living in your gut can promote obesity. A stool test, like Genova Diagnostics GI Effects or the one from DiagnosTechs might be helpful. A book, "The Food Intolerance Bible" by Anthony Hayne may help you with a do it yourself approach. (Food allergies can promote weight gain, too.)

    And diet. Surprisingly, calories aren't really the answer. "Good Calories, Bad Calories" by Gary Taubes, is a well-researched book that has some very surprising stories about obesity and nutrition research. Studies have been suggesting that ME/CFS patients don't do well with processing carbohydrates, and many of us are finding low carbohydrate, high fat diets to be helpful. You might try a Paleo Diet and then look into a ketogenic diet with the support of your doctor. (Many people have reversed type 2 diabetes this way, too.)

    Hope this helps, and best wishes to you! :hug:
     
  3. raghav

    raghav Senior Member

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    Thanks for the comprehensive post @Learner1 I will look into it. I already take 150 mcg Thyroxine for my hypothyroidism. My Testosterone level is equal to that of a 90 year old. Very low. I tried Testosterone gel under the supervision of an Endocrinologist. It did not help much. In ACTH test my cortisol level is just low normal. Endo says it is fine. But I know if I physically push myself then I come down crashing with PEM the next couple of days. Ashwagandha has helped a lot in reducing the PEM crashing to one day. I will look into all the issues and tests you have mentioned. Thanks for the response.

    I find Now Foods Rhodiola boosts my testosterone and gives me energy. I am taking it regularly. I dont know whether it is ok to continue it long term.
     
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  4. Oberon

    Oberon Senior Member

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    I understand the struggle as I've gained around 20lbs since ME/CFS. It used to be a heck of a lot easier to lose weight when I was able to be active. With Borderline Diabetes I would definitely try what Learner recommended with a lower carb type of diet. I would also consider taking Chromium as a supplement as there is some evidence it may help: http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-932-chromium.aspx?activeingredientid=932

    In terms of weight loss, yes it is not 100% calories in calories out, but it is still arguably the most important factor for weight loss. No matter what way you swing it you will need to burn more calories than you're ingesting. What I'm doing right now is tracking everything I eat in MyFitnessPal and trying to lose 0.3lb-1lb week depending on what I can tolerate. It's a slow process but it works and in six months I hope to hit my goal weight.

    The hard part is finding and maintaining the will power to stick to it. Some things that make life easier is to preplan your meals for the week, cook in bulk, don't have any junk in the house and always have lower calorie snacks on hand like cucumbers, pickles, celery, etc.

    Best of luck.
     
    Learner1 likes this.
  5. Learner1

    Learner1 Professional Patient

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    Sounds like hormones are an issue for you. Its more than just testosterone - you might need pregnenolone, DHEA, or other hormones. Rhodiola is good for adrenal support...the DUTCH test I mentioned tests all of these and more. Their website has lots of good little videos...

    Chromium and berberine can be helpful for blood sugar control but don't overdo it (more is not necessarily better...).

    The diet I was suggesting is a lot of nonstarchy vegetables with animal protein fish, meat & eggs) and healthy fats (olive oil, coconut oil, avocados, etc.). Its pretty easy to eat low calories this way without thinking about it too much. No sugar, grains, legumes, or dairy... Its a place to start, and then you can see what works for you. I lost 35 lbs on a similar diet, eating constantly, 8 years ago, and kept it off, though I lay about a lot and am less active than I was then.
     
  6. Basilico

    Basilico Florida

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    @raghav , my husband developed pre diabetes (which I believe is related to his CFS and not a true metabolic disorder, because it comes and goes - he is extremely lean and muscular and was athletic for most of his life, so the test results were quite a shock). He has/had insulin resistance and glucose intolerance. We bought several good home blood glucose monitors to determine how various foods and levels of carbs affect his blood sugar. Do you have one of these devices? If not, I highly recommend getting one, if you can, to keep track of your blood sugar.

    Not being able to exercise is a really big problem, but I am convinced that you can prevent yourself from developing diabetes with some preventative care. The cryolipolyosis may remove some fat, but it won't prevent you from developing diabetes if you don't address your glucose intolerance.


    I am pasting a part of a post I wrote about this on another thread, maybe you will find it helpful:

    When my husband first found out he had glucose intolerance/insulin insensitivity, he started eating a very strict low carb diet to keep his glucose in check. Over time we saw that his glucose control became much better and even though he is still takes certain precautions, he can be much more relaxed about how he eats now.

    In the beginning, he'd tried to not eat more than 30g of carbs per any one time. He was eating a lot more meat, vegetables, nuts, eggs, cheese, and the carb would be more of a small side, like 2 pieces of bread, rather than the meal being carb-based like a bowl of pasta. He also switched to eating smaller meals but eating more frequently. Instead of using sugar in his lemonade (which we make at home) he switched to stevia. In the beginning, he was testing his glucose A LOT try understand how things affected his levels, and we found that by increasing his fiber, he could eat more carbs and have better glucose control. Combining carbs with fat did not help at all. At nighttime, if he wanted to get through the night without waking up, he'd eat something high protein/fat but low carb, like some leftovers from dinner (stew) or some ham with maybe 1 piece of bread and nuts, or even a glass of full fat milk. Yogurt is another excellent snack, the unflavored kind has basically zero sugar, it's great for stabilizing blood sugar. Beef jerky and nuts and olives are our main grab-and-go snacks now.

    Also, doing some kind of light exercise (like walking for 20 minutes) after eating has made a huge improvement in glucose control. If he checks his glucose after a meal and it's too high, if we walk for 20 minutes and then he tests it again, it's usually perfect. However, he's not always able to walk 20 minutes, especially if he's feeling crappy (and his glucose is more likely to be erratic when he's feeling worse or hasn't slept). During these times, he takes 1-3 teaspoons of apple cider vinegar mixed with water just before he eats and his glucose control is significantly better (ACV slows the digestion of carbs so glucose doesn't spike the same way).

    Also, his glucose is noticeably erratic if he hasn't slept well the night before.

    He went from checking his glucose probably 10x/day to now only checking it once it awhile. In general, his glucose control is fairly decent but whenever he's in a flare up/feeling sick/hasn't slept, then he has to be much more careful because that's when it gets weird.
     
    Learner1 likes this.
  7. Kati

    Kati Patient in training

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    Calories are the answer. The average people eat too much. Simple as that.

    The bigger piece ofthe puzzle when it comes to being overweight is what you eat and how much.

    There are no miracle cures. I wouldn't spend any money on miracle cures. What is needed is to reduce the amount of calories you eat, and to make this sustainable in the long term.
     
  8. Learner1

    Learner1 Professional Patient

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    As mentioned previously, the book "Good Calories, Bad Calories" by Gary Taubes is thoroughly researched and has some thought-provoking examples. Taubes didn't start out with an agenda, but there was surprising congruence in what he found. If you read it, its impossible to conclude a calorie is just a calorie.

    Some brief points of the fallacy of a calorie can be found here:

    http://www.everup.com/2016/02/17/calorie-fallacy-time-stop-counting/

    No one is advocating eating huge calorie meals as a weight loss tool, but eating a nutrient dense diet based on sound principles will help the body do what it was designed to do and it won't be craving junk in a cycle of craving, feeding, and insulin and dopamine spikes and crashes, which promote weight gain.

    I was shocked to find I could steadily lose weight while on an anti-candida (low carb) diet after struggling with calorie counting diets for years... and that it was easy to maintain. The change in looking at food as nourishment instead of calories made all the difference.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2017
  9. Kati

    Kati Patient in training

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    Publishing a book requires no peer review, no clinical trials and no scientific publishing. Just saying.
     
  10. Learner1

    Learner1 Professional Patient

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    The book has hundreds of references of scientific research that would meet your scrutiny.

    Enjoy!;)
     
  11. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    It depends on the cause. If it's from a mitochondrial disease, progression is probably largely uncontrollable.
     
  12. Basilico

    Basilico Florida

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    Just because there is a chance that progression is uncontrollable doesn't mean the person shouldn't do whatever he reasonably can to stop the progression. Since the OP is overweight and unable to do minimal exercise, it is highly likely that his glucose intolerance it's not due to mitochondrial disease. Therefore, some minimal changes in diet are likely to have a big impact.

    If my husband had assumed his pre-diabetes was uncontrollable (which would have made sense, seeing as how he was lean/muscular with none of the typical warning signs), he'd probably have developed diabetes by this point. Instead, his insulin sensitivity is generally good, as is his glucose tolerance. He still has to be careful not to overdo it, and still has to be vigilant when he's in a crash or hasn't slept well, but this prevention has made a world of difference for him, and I think may also greatly benefit the OP.

    Even if the metabolic disorder is due to mitochondrial disease, I still think that dietary interventions have enormous value and may still help prevent the person from sliding into diabetes prematurely. Even for Type 1 and Type 2 diabetics, there is always value in keeping blood glucose stabilized and in control.

    I actually knew someone who was a Type 1 diabetic who ate high fat/low carb and felt dramatically better because her glucose didn't spike/drop as much as with a high carb diet, and she needed to rely on lower doses of insulin, which made her feel much better. It may not be a cure, but it still has the potential to do something good, even in an autoimmune situation where the body just doesn't produce insulin at all.
     
  13. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    Indeed. But your statement which I responded to above went much further than that, in suggesting that (non-type 1) diabetes could always be avoided. That simply isn't the case.
     
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  14. junkcrap50

    junkcrap50 Senior Member

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    If you're testosterone is that low, you need to be on testosterone replacement therapy. STAT! Screw the gels. I don't think they're very effective. Testosterone shots are more of a guarentee that the medication is getting into your body. Given sub-q, they're painless, but one will likely have to give them several times a week to oneself. One could also do intramusclular testostoner shots, and that's every 2 weeks, but that's more painful and harder to give oneself. (Easy if one has someone like a family member give them.)

    Also, if one's prediabetic, many people need to be on something like victoza, bydurean, byetta, or any other GLP-1 agonist. Metformin alone is often not enough. Try asking about those medications.

    Usually, especially with people with CFS, patients need to convince their doctors to get the best care and often find a doctor who knows what their doing.
     
  15. Tunguska

    Tunguska Senior Member

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    It's been a relevant topic to me to try to find ways to lose weight without exercising or stressing the body too much. This might not be my best post cause I have a phenibut hangover.

    In the past I might have suggested cold thermogenesis because it really works, especially if you combine it with something like cold green tea, but it is pretty stressful. [There's also intermittent fasting but it has a stress factor too]

    Calories definitely matter but just as important - if not more - is maintaining metabolism through the weight loss.

    One thing to consider is it's possible to emulate exercise to a certain point and to use some drugs for weight loss, even if this isn't really the best reason to emulate exercise. This is taboo but they really can contribute. Caffeine, thyroid, ALA, retinoic acid, there's a long list and they usually work best in tandem. Part of it comes from studies like this: http://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(08)00838-6 where AMPK activation combined with PPAR(d) activation will synergize to burn fat.

    A lot of those substances though appear a bit contraindicated with the research on ME/CFS so they need to be used judiciously and not constantly.

    By far the most interesting I partially read recently was Rapamycin discussed on this forum: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24787262 http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0093691
    It was in rats, but the ability to change the body's set-point has tremendous potential, unrelated to the exercise emulation thing.

    It's important to try to lose weight without killing metabolism. This is really the hardest part. One very unpopular way to do this is using fructose. If you create a calorie deficit but still consume somewhere between 120-200g of carbs from sugar throughout the day, the liver receives the bulk of the energy due to the fructose shunting, so the liver should tend to downregulate its metabolic-related processes less than it would otherwise. The only problem is fructose is terrible at producing satiety and this is probably the biggest reason it fails. So you have to combine it with substances which emulate satiety in the hypothalamus. In order words ALA, intranasal insulin or other things. This part is important independent of liver since hypothalamus is important in weight regulation. Probably you'd want some T3 somewhere in there but it's a whole thread to itself.

    If you have diabetes then you have a major issue on top of all this. Nothing I wrote here is meant to be safe with diabetes, except maybe ALA which is used in treating diabetes, coincidentally (or not?). I think trying to lose weight with both diabetes and ME/CFS is incredible, you may need to adjust your expectations more than anything.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2017
  16. raghav

    raghav Senior Member

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    Thanks @Basilico and others. You have given me a lot of options to think about.
     
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  17. Kina

    Kina

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    I don't think Cryolipolysis will help you in the long run unless you deal with the underlying causes of your weight gain. If you have the excess fat removed what is to stop you from regaining new fat?

    I think it might be helpful for you to say what eat in a typical day.

    I personally believe that calories are very important. If you take in more calories than you use, the body will store them as fat. Many people underestimate the actual calories they take in per day. You might want to find a website or an app that has a calorie tracker and log how many calories you are actually taking in per day. There are also websites that will give you an estimate of your basal metabolic rate based on different parameters -- then you can figure out how many calories you can eat without gaining weight. It's not an answer, but it's a start. It will also provide you with an answer if excess calories are the problem.
     
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  18. Groggy Doggy

    Groggy Doggy Senior Member

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    Here is my feedback.

    To increase energy and repress hunger, have you tried the Rx Phentermine? It's inexpensive, if you are a tight budget. It may be too hard for you to tolerate though.

    If you can afford body sculpting, assuming you are referencing liposuction, and your doctor says you are healthy enough, it's a great way to immediately and permamently get rid of fat cells. It's especially important to get rid of belly fat, so if you can only afford one area, that would be my recommendation.

    Have you tried giving yourself weekly B12 shots? If so, what kind and strength did you use?

    I just starting taking NAC, which is the precursor to Glutathione. N-Acetyl-L-Cysteine.
    I noticed my sugar cravings have disappeared, and I now wake up hungry in the morning.

    If you can, please stay positive. I might be able to think of a few more options if you can be more specific about your health and budget.

    Edited: just reread the thread. Since I don't know how much you feel you are overweight, the Cyro form may be too slow and require too many visits, thus too expensive. If you can get a quote for "awake" liposuction, then it's a one time procedure to suck out all of the unwanted fat.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017
  19. EtherSpin

    EtherSpin Senior Member

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    I'm at the point where I doubt any of these liposuction or freezing techniques would do much because of how little they remove but I think they would help a little due to physically having less fat cells and thus less ability to mop up oils and expand yourself so readily.
    I wonder if things like Lap-band would be available with government subsidy (as is possible in some countries like Australia where I am) .
    Here you can get much of it paid for if you hit 35 BMI with a health condition that is deemed valid as causing weight gain, whether CFS could be argued to them successfully is a big question.

    lap-band would remove enjoyment of food and that would be fine with me, it would make getting in liquid stuff a chore and I'd be using special shakes in addition to dishes with high vegetable content but so be it.
    that would be easier to live with than being really big to add to the stigma of a condition preventing me from physical work.

    I have a relative who got the surgery subsidised after a year of encouragement from me to apply, listened to his doctor , dropped about 30% of his body weight over the course of two years and then went to a different lapband doc who didn't know the degree of his food addiction,got the band loosened (saline injection into special port) and then simply didn't return to that doc. he is now back at his 2009 weight again and I get quite upset with him because I don't want him to leave the mortal coil early and I joke that I want to inherit the band from him as a feeble attempt at morbid humour that might get him to utilise the band once more!

    personally I really need to get down even just one size to cope, so that I don't need to arrange transport to the city to a specialty shop to get decent clothing and because I cannot redo my wardrobe again financially !

    I'm on metformin, no effect until I stopped it (for having no effect!) and I began rapidly gaining and went back on it and funnily enough I'm on LDN and wellbutrin which are in the title of another thread on here as some combo that helps weight loss.
    I fast most days with just water and tea/coffee till about 1pm - its a mystery to me as in the old days I could restrict calories and drop 20kg in 6 weeks.
     
  20. Learner1

    Learner1 Professional Patient

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    Your body needs nutrients! They feed your biochemistry to make your organ systems run!

    From what you've shared, there's something out of whack with your biochemistry which you need to get to the root of.

    While eating a nutrient dense diet, with pancreatic enzymes and high quality probiotics, have your entire endocrine and digestive systems gone through with a fine tooth comb. Pituitary, adrenal, thyroid, gall bladder, liver and pancreatic function and microno one composition can all have a dramatic ability to affect your weight.

    Check out food allergies/intolerances, too.

    Best wishes....
     
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