The 12th Invest in ME Research Conference June, 2017, Part 2
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Harvard Trained Immunologist Demolishes CA Legislation That Terminates Vax Exemptions 2016 Circle of

Discussion in 'Other Health News and Research' started by *GG*, Mar 14, 2016.

  1. *GG*

    *GG*

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    (Not sure of the date.)

    The following open letter by a PhD Immunologist completely demolishes the current California legislative initiative to remove all vaccine exemptions. That such a draconian and cynical state statute is under consideration in the ‘Golden State’ is as shocking as it is predictable. After all, it was mysteriously written and submitted shortly after the manufactured-in-Disneyland measles ‘outbreak’.

    The indisputable science that is employed by Tetyana Obukhanych, PhD ought to be read by every CA legislator who is entertaining an affirmative vote for SB277. Dr. Obukhanych skillfully deconstructs the many false and fabricated arguments that are advanced by Big Pharma and the U.S Federal Government as they attempt to implement a nationwide Super-Vaccination agenda.

    When the California Senate refuses to consider authoritative scientific evidence which categorically proves the dangerous vaccine side effects on the schoolchildren, something is very wrong. Such conduct by the Senate constitutes criminal action that endangers the lives and welfare of children. Their official behavior must be acknowledged for what it is — CRIMINAL — and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

    An Open Letter to Legislators Currently Considering Vaccine Legislation from Tetyana Obukhanych, PhD in Immunology
    Re: VACCINE LEGISLATION

    Dear Legislator:

    http://circleofdocs.com/harvard-tra...gislation-that-terminates-vaccine-exemptions/
     
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  2. helen1

    helen1 Senior Member

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    I watched her presentation (at the end of the article) which focuses on the measles vaccine and why it's ineffective. Very convincing. @ggingues
     
    ahmo likes this.
  3. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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  4. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    Interesting stuff. Thanks
     
  5. pogoman

    pogoman Senior Member

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    sigh, its a shame her qualifications aren't very substantial to support her views.
    google her name, no participation in vaccine research or vaccine papers in peer reviewed publications.

    I live in Cali and have been following the vaccine debate.
    There is no "current California legislative initiative", the vaccine exemption restriction was passed and signed into law last year.
     
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  6. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    It would be more interesting to rebut her claims, than nitpicking on the amount of published papers... imho.

    Evidently the article was written before?
     
    helen1 likes this.
  7. Kina

    Kina Admin Support Staff

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  8. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

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    Not only are Tetyana Obukhanych qualifications meager but look at Dr. Suzanne Humphries, who is cited above. Her website is full of pseudo science, conspiracies, theories

    I am quite suspicious of anyone who makes such unfounded statements that the California measles outbreak was manufactured, the evidence showing vaccines are harmful is indisputable, when it's the other way around, there's a conspiracy for a vaccine agenda and the people who believe this are criminals and should be prosecuted. It's not a critical assessment of what is really happening.

    While I don't believe in government mandates in general, the mandate for compulsory vaccines is the exception as there's the consideration of the greater good and that greater good is backed up with credible science.

    People do have the choice of not getting their children vaccinated but these students should not be allowed in the public school system. Let them be taught at home! They up the odds of dire consequences to the public at large.That is criminal!

    No one is saying that vaccines are 100 percent safe or effective, but the odds of not getting vaccinations are far more harmful.

    Both these people are well known in the anti vax community. So if we are going to question anyone's agends, these two are the ones we should be investigating.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2016
  9. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

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  10. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    Thanks, I've already read those and I hoped the discussion could raise above the usual black or white dichotomy.

    The 2nd article is simply a review of the dr.'s book, so not very relevant.
    The first one, has some valid points obfuscated by a long attempt to discredi the immunologist or downplay her authority which is already a red flag.

    The point-by-point rebuttal is an interesting read, but with an equal amount of cherry picking that is supposedly the main fault of the original article.

    I wish it would be possible to talk about issues like these without the usual derogatory labels from one side (anti-science, anti-vaxxer etc...) and the consipiratorial, fear-mongering tone frome the other... It's hardly every a black or white proposition.

    The discussion is not even about the efficacy or necessity for vaccination but rather at the government sponsored carpet-bombing type of approach to vaccination, which does raise multiple questions and is not even very well founded in scientific terms.

    I tend to agree with the comment posted below the article:

     
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  11. *GG*

    *GG*

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    I like Peter Positives comments, I don't think one sized fits all medicine is good for everyone!
    The majority, probably, so what happens with those in the minority?
    GG
     
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  12. Large Donner

    Large Donner Senior Member

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    Should they be let into public parks, scouts, local sports leagues, restaurants, hospitals, churches, summer camps, shops, supermarkets, cinemas, swimming pools etc etc?

    Or would you advocate a full ban on their movement?

    Exactly what risk are the unvaccinated to the vaccinated if the purpose of vaccines is to make you immune from the disease itself?
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2016
  13. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

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    Many of the above require physicals, so yes these people need to have vaccinations before participating. I would include state, federal and local government programs that include activities for children. This should also include any adults overseeing these programs.

    It would be impossible and unethical to ban people from all public places and therein lies the problem. The fact that it's the unvaccinated who seemingly don't worry about the consequences of others, including their own children, getting sick. It's a pity that it's the people who are unable to get vaccinated who have to be wary about going out.

    The outbreak at Disneyland is only one example of the above.

    Within my county three babies, too young to get the vaccine, died of whooping cough over the last five years. This is after decades of no deaths reported from whooping cough. A horrific and devestating situation that could have been avoided. This is just one example of what is happening and statistics bear this out.

    @PeterPositive
    TBH, this is what I feel pertains to the anti vaxers. I guess it's a matter of perspective and that is why it's important to not only discuss these issues but to back them up. No one is saying that vaccines don't carry risks but it's a matter of weighing the positives against the negatives.

    If all the scientific evidence showed the balance tipping towards more harm than good, I would feel differently.

    This says it better than I can.
    http://www.ovg.ox.ac.uk/herd-immunity

    An eye opening story about a parent with four children who are immunodeficient.

    http://www.voicesforvaccines.org/please-help-me-keep-my-children-healthy/
     
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  14. Large Donner

    Large Donner Senior Member

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    BarbC56 quote:

    Glad you pointed that out. However the vaccine schedule doesn't seem to think there is such a thing now.

    Barb you seem to be raising all the concerns that many people raise that you claim to be opposing.

    Are you including PWME who should be mandated too considering the immune issues we face? Or is it down to the government to take away their informed consent with "sound science"?
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2016
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  15. IreneF

    IreneF Senior Member

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    It defies common sense to claim that vaccines don't work, esp. the measles vaccine. Cases of measles in the US plummetted after the vaccine was introduced.
     
  16. *GG*

    *GG*

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    So is measles different than chicken pox, where parents would get together when one kid was sick, might as well have them all sick at the same time, and be done with it (usually)?

    GG
     
  17. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

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    According to the CDC's recommended vaccine schedule pertussis is not given until two months. I was surprised to see the flu, measles, as well as others aren't given until two months and a few even later. According to this schedule, newborns only given the HepB vaccination. I thought newborns get more vaccines than that. Am I reading this chart correctly?
    http://www.vaccines.gov/who_and_when/infants_to_teens/

    The article states these groups do not get vaccinated and are therefore at risk for catching the diseases that vaccinations cover. Herd immunity is defined as 19 out of 20 people get vaccinated. This would not include people who can not get vaccinated
    .
    It depends on whether the person has immune problems. I don't think we all have that. So that decision would be between the patient and the doctor.
     
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  18. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    The article from the OP does not claim that vaccines don't work.
    Measles vaccine in particular is subject to an interesting paradox:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8053748
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2016
  19. chipmunk1

    chipmunk1 Senior Member

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    Doctors generally don't understand immune problems neither do patients. Many of us may have immune problems that are not understood. I think this is one of the areas where no one knows how to make the right decision.
     
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  20. silverspeck

    silverspeck

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    A more accurate title would be: Immunologist who was once a postdoc at Harvard perpetuates myths promoted by anti-vaccination movement, attempts to back up claims with scientific evidence by pulling quotes from various sources that do not actually support her conclusions.

    Vaccination at its core is neither a safe nor effective method of disease prevention.
    - Tetyana Obukhanych, PhD Immunologist

    That says it all right there. In case there was any doubt that these discussions are pretty much never about actual issues in vaccine safety. Anyone who is familiar with the anti-vaccination movement has heard these arguments before in one form or another. It's the same nonsense they have been spewing for years.

    For example, David Gorski has already [indirectly] addressed a couple of her main arguments:

    He did a great job capturing the essence of anti-vaccination rhetoric too.

    Here are some more anti-vaccination tropes.

    Steven Novella also exposed the anti-science nature of the anti-vaccination movement, showing how they are much more interested in fear-mongering and spreading propaganda than in vaccine safety.

    I only bring this up because it's hard to see what Obukhanych is trying to do here unless you know what to watch out for. After all, the letter sounds reasonable (if you don't look too closely) and one might even find her arguments compelling and persuasive if they are unfamiliar with how anti-vaxxers operate.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2016
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