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Hair Mineral Testing

Discussion in 'Alternative Therapies' started by Dog Person, Mar 10, 2012.

  1. garcia

    garcia Aristocrat Extraordinaire

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    I haven't seen a source, though to me it does sound entirely plausible.

    Yes, and this is what the methylation protocol does to some extent, e.g. by taking active forms of folate, B12 & B6.
    But if B2 deficiency were the underlying cause then it would presumably be better to take B2 itself, since B2 is involved in things other than just converting the B vitamins (e.g. cellular energy).

    Active forms of folate and B6 seem to be absorbed just fine from the gut (at least in my experience). B12 obviously is different, which is why sublingual so popular.
     
  2. dmholmes

    dmholmes Senior Member

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    Doctor's Data (2009)

    microgram/gram

    calcium 374
    magnesium 27
    sodium 24
    potassium 15
    iron 5.1
    copper 9.6
    zinc 220
    manganese 0.07
    selenium 1.1
    chromium 0.33
    molybdenum 0.035
    lithium < 0.004
    cobalt 0.002

    lead 0.11
    mercury 0.06
    cadmium 0.010
    arsenic 0.046
    aluminum 3.6
    nickel 0.07


    Doctor's Data (2010)
    calcium 536
    magnesium 32
    sodium 56
    potassium 8
    iron 19
    copper 13
    zinc 220
    manganese 0.15
    selenium 1.2
    chromium 0.32
    molybdenum 0.039
    lithium 0.004
    cobalt 0.004

    lead 0.07
    mercury 0.08
    cadmium 0.022
    arsenic 0.04
    aluminum 1.8
    nickel 0.15
     
  3. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    I took these to be the sources of the info she posted, posted in the usual place at the bottom of the article.

    9^ a b Brody, Tom (1999). Nutritional Biochemistry. San Diego: Academic Press. ISBN 0-12-134836-9. OCLC 212425693 39699995 51091036 162571066 212425693 39699995 51091036.
    10^ Powers J. Hilary. Riboflavin (vitamin B-2) and health, Review Article. Am J Clin Nutr 2003;77:135260
     
  4. Kina

    Kina Moderation Team Lead

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    Aquariusgirl -- actually, the first part of the post is copied from herbs2000.com which does not provide any references about where they got their information. Some of the information came directly from wikipedia. I tend to avoid using google for searches related to research because you tend to end up with links to vitamin/supplement companies that don't provide sources and are somewhat biased.

    I use the Scirus sciientific search engine. I searched Riboflavin/vitamin B2 with Scirus and found many wonderful research articles re: B2/Riboflavin.

    There was a research paper called: Mitochondrial Function and Toxicity - role of the B vitamin family on mitochondrial energy metabolism. The abstract looks like it would be a good read but the paper is behind a paywall.

    It would actually be nice for Dog Person to tell us how her research stemming from hair analysis relates to people with ME/CFS, as it's unclear.
     
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  5. Dog Person

    Dog Person *****

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    dmholmes
    I did not see your phosphorus readings. Could you please add those. Also, have you been supplementing zinc or do you use a zinc shampoo?
    Thanks
     
  6. jeffrez

    jeffrez Senior Member

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    So wait a second: the new "cure" for ME/CFS this week is to take B2? And if you take it and have symptoms, just take less? What would I need a hair analysis for, then? Dog Person runs a hair analysis consulting business? In the 30+ years we've known of CFS, no researchers have considered riboflavin yet?

    Hmmm
     
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  7. dmholmes

    dmholmes Senior Member

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    2009 - Phosphorus 247
    2010 - Phosphorus 260

    No on the shampoo, yes I was probably supplementing zinc at the time those were run.
     
  8. Lou

    Lou Senior Member

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    Here's the thing, and maybe it should be about the ONLY f--king thing once in awhile, B2, in a very marked way is helping some of us. I appreciate science much as the next guy, but I'm not throwing out experience because some research paper says otherwise(and of course, there's exceptions, what feels better is not always better). Still I'm happy I continued eating eggs and some red meat despite all the hoopla agaist it. And I'm glad I never took up decaf and that my mother chose not to go the hormone replacement rout despite the research touting them.

    I don't know, think my point is ME'ers find themselves in a different boat, research, at least until recently, hasn't done a lot to help us, and if some of us find something that does then waiting years on the proper research just ain't an option. Some of us will take our chances.

    Speaking of God, seems some here place proper sources and research on an equal footing. I mean, if B2 or something else quite as simple did cure us(no way saying it will) and us 'cured' started doing double-back flips and cartwheels and memorizing general relativity and lots of others signs we were better, I think there'd still be some here tapping their keyboard: Where's the research?


     
    dmholmes likes this.
  9. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    Anybody can claim anything. Uri Geller claimed he could bend spoons. It even looked like he could; he demonstrated it over and over. But somehow, under controlled conditions, he never could.
     
  10. Lou

    Lou Senior Member

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    Hi adreno, under somewhat controlled conditions(not taking anything else right now) I still think I'm better. Not sure someone wants to research me to prove that, however.

    Please don't misunderstand, I'm not against good research at all, it's just that in our special circumstance, you may have to trust experience as well.

    Best,

    Lou

     
  11. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    Yes, but I don't know if you're better, only that you're telling me you are. And I don't know if I will be better, if I do the same as you.

    Even if I believe that you're better, I don't know whether this is due to B2 (in this case), placebo, or some third unknown factor that happened to coincide.

    I agree we do have to experiment. But I still like to have at least a plausible mechanism for why a suggested treatment might help. I wouldn't try a rife machine, for instance, because I don't believe in the underlying "theory".

    That said, I'm currently trialing riboflavin also. I regard it as an easy and low risk treatment. As long as the theory is not falsified, and is at least plausible, I'll consider it. But if I find evidence, from a credible source, that the theory is invalid, I'll drop the treatment and try something else.

    There has to be some way we select treatment modalities to try, and currently this is the priority I value them by:

    1. Randomized, controlled trials.
    2. Other studies, single case studies.
    3. Clinical experience from credible doctors
    4. Anecdotes

    So far, for this B2 theory, we have only anecdotes, which is the least credible of evidence. This, of course, does not mean that the theory can't be right, it very well might turn out to be.

    I'm not asking for research showing B2 will cure or improve CFS, that research doesn't exist. I'm just looking for evidence to validate the mechanism of B2 as proposed by Dog Person.

    If her claims checks out, it strengthens the credibility of her theory. If not...well.

    Same goes for Rich VanK. Do I have evidence that CFS is caused by a methylation block? No. But his theory sounds plausible, is logically coherent, the mechanism is possible and the facts he states are supported by evidence. That makes it a treatment worth trying, in my view.
     
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  12. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    Kina: Sorry. You've lost me...Are you saying those sources at the bottom of her post are not the only sources? Wikipedia could have copied some of the stuff from those textbookss/papers.

    Anyhoo, this is getting a bit inside baseball now.. so I'm going to leave it there.
     
  13. Kina

    Kina Moderation Team Lead

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    I am saying that most of the post has been sourced from other websites which probably should have been linked to (re copyright). Wikipedia usually has links to sources of information -- I believe it's a requirement.

    Kina.
     
  14. Nielk

    Nielk

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    I am wondering why dogperson never answered Rich's questions???????????
     
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  15. gu3vara

    gu3vara Senior Member

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    She probably did in PM.
     
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  16. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Yes, she did. Since she answered me in a PM, I want to respect her privacy in responding.

    Best regards,

    Rich
     
  17. Dog Person

    Dog Person *****

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    Thank you Rich.
     
  18. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senescent on the Illinois prairie, USA

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    How about keeping your dose low until Christine posts her explanation and you understand more of the underlying theory? I am not sure it is low risk if your metabolism is badly messed up.
     
  19. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    How would knowing more theory change the risks?

    You can read all you want about motorcycle driving, but it still carries the same risks.

    I don't regard taking B2 as any more risky than taking all the other drugs and supplements that people are trying.
     
  20. Rand56

    Rand56 Senior Member

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    I agree. I don't consider trialing B2 as high risk either. I believe most people here have trialed many different supplements and have gotten to know their bodies pretty well as far as reactions to them. At low doses and it only being a vitamin, its not like we are trialing LSD here.
     
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