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Hair Mineral Testing

Discussion in 'Alternative Therapies' started by Dog Person, Mar 10, 2012.

  1. brenda

    brenda Senior Member

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    Hi Little Bluestem

    I am limiting fruit, vegetables and other foodstuffs which contain iron zinc folic acid and vitamin A. The hardest part for me is giving up juiced vegetables. I was juicing carrots celery parsley broccoli sprouts and beetroot. I also used dried barley grass, and have not stopped that but cut it right down to a teaspoonful. I am missing my high intake of vegetables and gutted that for so long I thought that I was doing the right thing as ALL of the advise given is the more the merrier.

    I was also avoiding dairy products which has been detrimental to my riboflavin levels and am now eating raw milk cheese.

    So I am still having vegetables but limiting those like green leafy ones.
    Little Bluestem likes this.
  2. Nielk

    Nielk

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    I'm very happy that she is helping you, bluestem. If she was able to uncover something that can eventually help you and others, I am genuinely ecstatic. I was just pointing the obvious, if someone just goes through all the posts and read them, it's obvious that there are questions she is not ready to answer and it's her right to choose what she wants to share or not but then be truthful about it. Don't give a long post time and time again about how important your time is and list all the things you did and still have to do. Just answering the questions would have been quicker.
    Why is it a private club, when someone might have a treatment to all of us? Is it because you guys already had hair analysis reports and she is in a rush to write up her report?

    You say that you guys (in the private club) have gotten to know her better. Good for you. Are you sworn to secrecy about her? Did she answer you why she is interested in ME/CFS patients? That answer I think is pretty vital for us to know. How does a person who studies and is concerned about dogs jump to CFS patients. I don't understand it and with a lack of information and the secrecy surrounding all this, I'm skeptical until I get more information.
    CJB and justy like this.
  3. Dog Person

    Dog Person *****

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    To Nielk,

    I thought I had already stated in one post that I work with people and have/had a client with CSF. Her chart indicated a specific imbalance, which included severe folic acid deficiency. She was as all of you, very tired, could not go to sleep at night or stay asleep at night without medications or herbs, she hurt everywhere and was quite depressed about it. She is a very strong Christian woman and tried to use her faith to keep her going. But after adopting two children she could barely find the energy to care for them. Currently, she tells me she is off all medications, falls and stays asleep easily, doesnt hurt anywhere and has plenty of energy throughout the day. SO, since my limited degree in hair analysis seemed to fit well with Chronic Fatigue because it is how to improve the energy system that I am legally allowed to work with, I searched for a forum and signed on to this one. Legally, I am unable to say anything medical or imply anything that could treat or cure any medical condition. So I have to be very careful of what I say in this regard.

    I only wanted to observe hair charts for CSF/ME people to see if the correlation was there to my clients charts. As I also wrote, I was very poorly received on the ALS web forum so I was very cautious of what I said initially on this forum. When I received the first hair chart, the person was in such a severe state of what is called a Na/K inversion, that it placed her in a very high risk for heart attack, stroke, cancer, diabetes, etc. I was very concerned for her health so PM to her and then phone called to speak with her. I did feel this was something that should have been placed on the forum, thus the PM. We spent a long time on the phone, as I explained what Ive learned from working with dogs and what I though would be best for her to do.

    You see I can tell someone from dawn till dusk about hair mineral analysis and what they tell me, but almost no one believes in them. When I sent copies of the hair charts to my professors of nutrition, they initially told me that what I saw manganese deficiency could not be true. That the experts that have tried to create this deficiency in a controlled setting could not, so the hair charts must be wrong or unreliable as they all thought from previous reports. Once the liver biopsy results confirmed the hair charts that I so value, suddenly they started to be more interested. So by working with the dogs doing liver biopsies, I was able to show that my interpretation of the hair charts was accurate.

    At this point, one professor started to offer me all the graduate level nutrition courses he teaches via email, for me to learn more and continue in my research as to the cause of the imbalance; which was the same imbalance in dogs as over 200 human charts I had already done (just varying degrees of the imbalance); dogs being far more imbalanced. I knew there had to be something that was occurring with AAFCOs dog food nutrient guidelines and what the World Health Organization had done to human nutrition, but needed to find the commonality. I now believe I have found commonality. When I presented my theory to an animal nutrition professor, he then asked if he could join me and publish a paper on this. I was very excited and pleased that finally the hair analysis may be accepted for the high degree of accuracy that they show regarding the energy systems of the body: adrenals, thyroid, carbohydrate metabolism and overall vitality.

    But, Im not moving forward on that paper because Ive been spending time with the people on this forum and now attempting to write something for all of you to address your issues. And the reason for that is because I care about all of you that have suffered. I also suffered with so many of the same things that affected many of you for over 50 years of my life. I really can relate. I didnt write my life story because I did not think anyone would want to hear it and it would have to cover so many issues from mental, intestinal, allergies, skin, nerve, headaches, teeth, hair, nails, muscles, ligaments, slipped discs, iron overload, that it wouldnt even seem believable. I never received a specific CFS/ME diagnosis, but probably my doctors never heard of it, though they were happy to diagnose me with lots of other things through the years.

    After I received a few more hair charts from this forum, again I was very concerned for the well being of each of them and again made personal contact. As soon as they started to post their improvements, others then wanted my recommendations, what to take, answer this or that, etc. It became far more than I ever anticipated. I am not comfortable answering others questions that I have not seen charts for. Guessing is not a good idea when it comes to anyones health, dog or human, in my opinion. So caution seemed warranted. And it is very time consuming to answer specific questions which require documentation and must be worded very carefully so as not to overstep my bounds into the medical community. At that point, is when I decided to stop answering the majority of individual questions, and try to put it into just a few documents to explain what Ive found, what I think is occurring and how to change the balance of the energy system to improve health for as many as it can.

    Nielk, I hope this helps. When you sounded so distressed about me, I felt I should offer this to you and any of the others that have wanted to understand me more. Again, Im sorry for any misunderstandings Ive caused. I thought I had put on one thread about my CSF client and why I came to this forum.
    merylg likes this.
  4. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    Hi Dog Person--

    I have a question about Source Naturals, Coenzymated B-1, which I just ordered. Now I read that coenzymated vitamins are no good. I can't find a B1 that is less than 100 mg. If you or someone here know one, please let me know.
  5. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    There's nothing wrong with coenzyme vitamins. They are at least as good as the normal ones. The only question is: are they in any way better than the regular ones? They are certainly more expensive.
  6. Nielk

    Nielk

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    Hi dogperson,

    Thank you for taking the time and answering my question as to what interested you about the ME/CFS community. Like I said before, if you can help anyone here, I am very grateful for that. I have no experience nor knowledge about hair analysis nor how accurate the readings are. Then again, many things in conventional medicine doesn't add up either. The bloodtests that MDs are so reliant on their results are not always accurate. Different labs will produce different results etc..It's the results that matter. If you see positive results from your analysis then that's great.
    I'm a little confused though as your timing to join up to this forum in order to help us. You mention being very busy writing a paper with an animal nutrition professor and the people on this forum are taking your time away from your work to finish that paper. Why did you not wait till you finished writing that paper in order to tackle helping us? Is it that you are going to include your findings from the people here that you joined us at this time. There is nothing wrong with that (as far as I can see) but, please don't complain that they are taking away your time from your important paper. If they are subjects used for this paper, it's only natural that they should be given time allotted to their questions. After all, they are not subjects like dogs who are incapable to ask anything.
  7. xrunner

    xrunner Senior Member

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    Hi Dog Person,

    Do you also interpret blood tests?
    Unfortunately I don't have any recent hair chart (the latest of three years ago). I kind of gave up on them because they didn't seem to show anything obvious. Recently I had blood tests of minerals in whole blood, serum and intracellular. There's a couple of odd readings which my Dr can't really explain. I wondered whether you have any interest in those.
    All the best

    PS: if you ever get to write a book on the topic, I bet there'll be plenty of people who would buy it, me included.
  8. Dog Person

    Dog Person *****

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    http://www.fao.org/DOCREP/004/Y2809E/y2809e0a.htm

    Differences in bio-availability of folic acid and food folate
    The RNIs suggested for groups in Table 13 used food folate as the source of dietary folate because most societies in developing countries consume folate from naturally occurring sources. As discussed in the introduction, natural folates are found in a conjugated form in food, which reduces its bio-availability by perhaps as much as 50 percent (4). In addition, natural folates are much less stable. If chemically pure folic acid (pteroyl monoglutamate) is used to provide part of the RNI, by way of fortification or supplementation, the total dietary folate, which contains conjugated forms (pteroyl polyglutamates), could be reduced by an appropriate amount. On average the conjugated folate in natural foods is considered to be only half as available as synthetic folic acid. For example, the recommendation of usual mixed forms of folate in the diet is 400 g/day, but 100 g of this given as pure folic acid would be considered to be equivalent to 200 g of dietary mixed folate. Hence, only an additional 200 g of dietary folate would be needed.

    The FAO/WHO expert group agreed with the findings of the Food and Nutrition Board of the US National Academy of Sciences (22):

    Since folic acid taken with food is 85 percent bio-available but food folate is only about 50 percent bio-available, folic acid taken with food is 85/50 (i.e., 1.7) times more available. Thus, if a mixture of synthetic folic acid plus food folate has been fed, dietary folate equivalents (DFEs) are calculated as follows to determine the EAR:
    g of DFE provided = [g of food folate + (1.7 x g of synthetic folic acid)]

    To be comparable to food folate, only half as much folic acid is needed if taken on an empty stomach, i.e., 1 g of DFE = 1 g of food folate = 0.5 g of folic acid taken on an empty stomach = 0.6 g of folic acid with meals (22).

    The experts from the National Academy of Sciences went on to say that the required estimates for the dietary folate equivalents could be lowered if future research indicates that food folate is more than 50 percent bio-available.
    merylg likes this.
  9. Gavman

    Gavman Senior Member

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    I'm currently leaning into the B6 and zinc due to low pyrolle levels. As i increase B2, I have been more agitated by bright light, I'm also blinking more though and so i think it may be improving.
    Will this be due to the B2 taking time to absorb and having probably too much in the one go?
    And if low zinc levels and serotonin affect light sensitivity, will B2 alone be enough to repair this faulty system?

    Cheers.
  10. Sparrow

    Sparrow Senior Member

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    Here is my hair test result from last year, when I had just hit bottom and was very, very ill. Hope the data helps. I would love to hear any insights you had on it.

    At the time of the test, I believe I was on reduced sugar but still ate fruit, rice, corn, etc. Sugar balances me out in some ways, but also definitely makes me worse in others, so it's kind of a wash for me. My current intake is very minimal compared to the "normal" diet, but I haven't cut it out entirely.

    At this time, I had also been taking a cyanoB12 (1000mcg/day) and folic acid supplement, as I had been B12 deficient in the past but did not yet know anything about methylation protocols, etc.

    Thanks!

    SparrowPage1.jpg SparrowPage2.jpg
  11. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    I am wondering if there is a connection between B2 depletion & hypoxia & low growth hormone? The low growth hormone because of the impaired sleep, which I'm guessing may tie back in to the low oxygen thing.
  12. alwayshopeful

    alwayshopeful

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    Hi Dogperson,
    I have attached my latest hair minerals test. If you have time, I would appreciate you looking at it for me. Thanks scan0001.jpg
  13. Dog Person

    Dog Person *****

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    Also posted in B2 I love you in response to a question

    Research is fairly new regarding amount of B2 stored on the body (last 4 years). They have not quantified the amount yet, but the fact that it takes over 3 months to create a deficiency when animals are fed a purified diet suggests the stores are very high. You can create a deficiency of folic acid or B12, both stored in the liver in small quantities, in about 1-2 weeks, depending on circumstances of course. The other B vitamins that are not stored create a deficiency the very day they are not supplied by either food, supplement form or activated by other vitamins. You also correct those deficiencies the day you take or activate them. But correcting a B2 deficiency can take weeks, see information below.

    The compound riboflavin or vitamin B2 as it is known is vital for the formation of two substances involved in the efficient utilization and biochemical conversion of the calories derived from the proteins, the fats and carbohydrates in food into a form that can be used by cells: riboflavin is found in flavin adenine dinucleotide (FAD) and in flavin mononucleotide (FMN); both compounds are part of the electron transport chain in the mitochondria. The energy levels in the body are reduced by a lack of riboflavin in the body. The formation of skin, nails and hair requires the presence of riboflavin.

    Significant effects on the metabolism of the carbohydrates, fats and protein result from the existence of a riboflavin deficiency in the body. To be properly utilized in the human body, all these three basic food elements will require riboflavin for their bio-chemical conversion into usable metabolic energy. The utilization of carbohydrate decreases when there is insufficient riboflavin in the body, this may result in an increase in the consumption of carbohydrates as the human body tells itself to increase the intake of carbohydrates correct the diminished efficiency in carbohydrate metabolism.

    The utilization of proteins also falls away in the even on a deficiency in the vitamin B2. A deficiency of riboflavin can lead to the greater excretion of proteins in the urine. The increased urinary output may also lead to the excretion of riboflavin along with the proteins in the urine, a vicious cycle begins as more protein has to be excreted and more riboflavin is released from the body - increasing the state of deficiency.

    The human bodys requirement for riboflavin is also increased by high consumption of dietary fats. The fat will be deposited in the liver, in the kidneys, in the adrenal glands and along the arterial walls if insufficient riboflavin is supplied to handle the fat component of the diet.

    A deficiency of riboflavin in the human body leads to a disruption in the activity of the thyroid gland and can induce birth defects in babies - defects that affect the nervous system, the skin, the skeletal system and the vascular system in general. The capacity to learn diminishes in young animals that suffer from a riboflavin deficiency during the developmental stages. A riboflavin deficiency in young developing animals have lasting effects as supplying adequate levels of riboflavin to older animals does not restore the capacity to learn to normal levels.

    Physical symptoms such as inflammation in the tongue, in the lips or in the mouth can start to affect a person whose riboflavin demands in the metabolic process of the body exceeds the supply of the vitamin in the diet. Physical symptoms can also include eyes that become extremely sensitive to light and which burn or itch all the time, appearing bloodshot and teary at all times. Symptoms such as seborrheic - greasy scaling - dermatitis, begins to be apparent in the areas around the lips and the nose, in the skin around the eyes, in the skin behind the ears and in the scrotal sack. Many other factors can cause any of these physical symptoms. A riboflavin deficiency is indicated when all these symptoms affect a person at one time and the diet of the person is poor in nutrients.

    The greatest importance must be paid to the changes in the skin that occur in and around the eyes. The eyes of animals can be affected by opacities as a result of riboflavin deficiency; these changes in the eyes are similar to the problems caused by cataracts in people. A riboflavin deficiency leads to the development of corneal opacity in some people. A test was conducted by doctors on twenty two people affected by cataracts, during these tests the doctors found that eight of these patients suffered from deficiencies of riboflavin at the cellular level.

    Psychiatric disturbances can also be induced by a riboflavin (vitamin B2) deficiency. Six young men were maintained on a riboflavin deficient diet during a riboflavin deficiency study carried out under 24 hour medical supervision - the men were given whole sets of psychological tests during the trial. The young men experienced very significant levels of psychological change as soon as the deficiency started to manifest itself in the body. The young men became depressed and suffered from an increase in lethargy. Some of them complained about suffering from imaginary pains and illnesses - a medical condition called hypochondriasis. When measured on hysteria and psychopathic deviate scales - their scores were all high, and some of them underwent measurable personality shifts that were very significant. However, none of the classic symptoms seen during riboflavin deficiency - including problems like dermatitis and inflammation in the eyes affected the young men before the experiment ended. The men were again supplemented with riboflavin following the period of testing -which lasted about two months - the psychiatric symptoms took longer than two weeks to completely dissipate and the young men were restored to normal.

    High levels of riboflavin in the blood was studied by another group of researchers in another scientific study that measured the psychological effects of vitamins on people - the researchers associated high levels of riboflavin with greater extroversion, an ability to concentrate and general contentment with life.

    The ability of the muscles to perform is beneficially affected by supplements of riboflavin (vitamin B2). This vitamin given as supplements in moderate amounts to young athletes resulted in an eleven per cent boost in their ability to resist fatigue. The neuromuscular irritability of several young athletes who were given 10 mg of vitamin B2 in another study was lowered -this irritability is a biochemical measurement connected to physical fatigue. Before the experiments began, at least eight of the athletes were deficient in riboflavin and this could have played a part in the results witnessed. A riboflavin supplementation regimen could benefit athletes as the results from the tests suggest an increased requirement for riboflavin during heavy physical training and exercise. Vitamin B2 may in particular be of benefit to athletes who are required to exercise in the cold, the results from some animal experiments suggests that riboflavin given in high doses actually enabled rats to swim in cold water for longer periods of time - this could be true of humans as well.

    One of the ways in which riboflavin helps protect the body is by maintaining the functioning of the immune response and by helping in the detoxification of noxious chemicals in the body. People affected by a riboflavin (vitamin B2) deficiency also experience general decrease in cellular antibody production and a lowering of general cell level activity. The detoxification process in the liver is also actively aided by riboflavin, the vitamin helps detoxify hormonal chemicals like the estrogens and various other carcinogenic substances in the body, it also eliminates other harmful natural and synthetic chemicals that have found their way into the human body. There is general consensus among doctors that this vitamin may also be involved in the detoxification of the common poison, boric acid, this is based on the discovery that boric acid poisoning causes excessive levels of riboflavin to be found in the urine.

    Carcinogens or cancer causing chemicals found in the human body are also actively detoxified by riboflavin. During one experiment, rats given such carcinogens were spared from developing liver tumors by giving them riboflavin in high doses. At the same time, a deficiency of the vitamin riboflavin can result in the stimulation of the growth of tumors in the body. One example of an increase in utilization and need of riboflavin is show in the fact that less amounts of riboflavin than normal is excreted if a person suffers from cancer of the stomach, breast cancer, uterine cancer, or cancers of the skin and the lungs. This connection between tumors and riboflavin excretion has been demonstrated in one study involving a thousand adults with various cancers, in eighty per cent of such people there was virtually no riboflavin excreted in the urine, notwithstanding the type of tumor they suffered from at the time.

    The level of riboflavin (vitamin B2) required by active people is much more than the RDA for people who are less than active. Women who jogged twenty five to fifty minutes daily were placed on a controlled diet that included measurable amounts of riboflavin during on clinical investigation. The body of the women was subsequently tested for levels of the vitamin after the doses were varied during the study. A minimum of twice the RDA of riboflavin was required in the diet intake to raise the blood levels of riboflavin to levels that doctors considered an acceptable range for women. Therefore, it can be said that the bodys requirement for riboflavin is increased by physical exercise and metabolic requirements; this same requirement for riboflavin was increased in a weight loss diet as well.

    Foods items such as organ meats, sea foods and fishes, all dairy products and eggs, green leafy vegetables, wheat germ, whole grains and legumes form rich sources for riboflavin (vitamin B2). Heat does not degrade riboflavin in foods, however, soaking foods for long periods of time or cooking them in water can lead to substantial losses of the vitamin, as the vitamin is soluble in water and can leach away. Riboflavin is also degraded if it is exposed to strong light. There are a wide range of dosages of supplementary riboflavin, with tablets starting from one mg going up to hundreds of milligrams. There are no toxic side effects associated with riboflavin. The repeated failures experienced in many attempts to produce toxic reactions in the body of experimental animals using riboflavin has convinced researcher that no toxicity is connected to this compound. The absorption of this vitamin is increased and its rate of uptake in the body is hastened when it is consumed along with foods such as fiber rich vegetables.

    Long term alcoholics are more likely to suffer from a deficiency of the vitamin B2. People who suffer from cataracts or sickle cell anemia are also much more likely to be affected by a deficiency of riboflavin.

    Uptake of riboflavin by human-derived cultured liver cells is by means of a carrier-mediated, energy dependent,
    Na+-independent system which appears to be regulated by an intracellular Ca2+/calmodulin mediated transduction pathway and by substrate level in the growth medium (Said et al., 1998). The liver is the major storage site of the vitamin and contains about one-third of the total body flavins, 7090% of which is in the form of FAD. Free riboflavin constitutes less than 5% of the stored flavins. Other storage sites are the spleen, kidney and cardiac muscle. These
    depots maintain significant amounts of the vitamin even in severe deficiency states.


    Biochemical Functions

    Riboflavin functions in the intermediary transfer of electrons in metabolic oxidation-reduction reactions as two coenzymes, flavin mononucleotide (FMN) and flavin adenine dinucleotide (FAD). The riboflavin coenzymes function with a large number of oxidases and dehydrogenases important in normal metabolism. Those enzymes that use FMN include glucose oxidase, L-amino acid oxidase and lactate dehydrogenase. Those that use FAD include D-amino acid oxidase, cytochrome reductase, succinic dehydrogenase and acylCoA dehydrogenases, L-gulonolactone dehydrogenase, x-glycerophosphate dehydrogenase and glutathione reductase. The activity of the last enzyme in the erythrocyte responds directly to changes in nutritional riboflavin status and is therefore used as a clinical parameter for that purpose.

    The riboflavin coenzymes transfer electrons to the pyridine dinucleotides of the mitochondrial electron transport chain. Due to this role in energy metabolism, deficient intakes of riboflavin results in impaired efficiency of respiratory energy production. This may result in increases in feed intake by 10-15 percent. Reduced electron transport in riboflavin deficiency also results in specific pathologies in those tissues with the greatest normal respiratory rates.

    In animals, riboflavin deficiency results in lack of growth, failure to thrive, and eventual death. Experimental riboflavin deficiency in dogs results in growth failure, weakness, ataxia, and inability to stand. The animals collapse, become comatose, and die. During the deficiency state, dermatitis develops together with hair loss. Other signs include corneal opacity, lenticular cataracts, hemorrhagic adrenals, fatty degeneration of the kidney and liver, and inflammation of the mucous membrane of the gastrointestinal tract. Post-mortem studies in rhesus monkeys fed a riboflavin-deficient diet revealed about one-third the normal amount of riboflavin was present in the liver, which is the main storage organ for riboflavin in mammals. About 28 million Americans exhibit a common sub-clinical stage.[10] characterized by a change in biochemical indices (e.g. reduced plasma erythrocyte glutathione reductase levels). Although the effects of long-term subclinical riboflavin deficiency are unknown, in children this deficiency results in reduced growth. Subclinical riboflavin deficiency has also been observed in women taking oral contraceptives, in the elderly, in people with eating disorders, and in disease states such as HIV, inflammatory bowel disease, diabetes and chronic heart disease. The fact that riboflavin deficiency does not immediately lead to gross clinical manifestations indicates that the systemic levels of this essential vitamin are tightly regulated.
    9^ a b Brody, Tom (1999). Nutritional Biochemistry. San Diego: Academic Press. ISBN 0-12-134836-9. OCLC 212425693 39699995 51091036 162571066 212425693 39699995 51091036.
    10^ Powers J. Hilary. Riboflavin (vitamin B-2) and health, Review Article. Am J Clin Nutr 2003;77:135260
    merylg likes this.
  14. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    Dog Person, did you create this information, or what is the source?

    Also, I believe no one here doubt that B2 is an essential nutrient. I assume that most members here take riboflavin already, on a regular basis.
  15. garcia

    garcia Aristocrat Extraordinaire

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    Hi adreno. I've been taking B2 50mg a day for years as part of my b-complex. However I have been trying additional B2 on its own and getting strong (good) reactions, which to me suggests that I am functionally deficient and that for me either 50mg isn't enough, or it simply isn't being absorbed.

    As for sources for the above:
    "The compound riboflavin ... deficiency of riboflavin" http://www.herbs2000.com/vitamins/v_b2.htm
    "Uptake ... deficiency states" appears to be from http://important-vitamins.blogspot.co.uk/2007/07/adaptive-regulation-of-ribofl-avin.html
    "Biochemical functions ... respiratory rates." is from p53 of the book Vitamin Tolerance of Animals
    "In Animals ... tightly regulated" is from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riboflavin#Riboflavin_deficiency

    I'm very interested to see where DP goes with this protocol as I find this stuff fascinating!
    merylg likes this.
  16. brenda

    brenda Senior Member

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    Dog Person wrote on the B2 I love you thread

    I suggest you lower your amount of B2. Allow it to balance the other B's that you are eating in foods so they can work in synergy.

    Thanks I will do that.
  17. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    So it's a mix of different sources. It's simply considered good practice to state your sources of information, that's why I asked.
  18. merylg

    merylg Senior Member

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  19. Rand56

    Rand56 Senior Member

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    If DP's theory is correct, I wonder if it is really ever advisable to even be taking a high dose B-complex due to B-2's low absorption compared to the other B's and B-2 stores being used up to help assimilate the massive amounts of other B's. Maybe if you even gave yourself extra B-2 to compensate along with a B-complex you still might not be doing yourself any favors because maybe you will just urinate out the additional B-2 because of it's low absorption, although I would like DP's thoughts on if one were to take a B-complex if additional B-2 can be taken sublingually to overcome the absorption issue. Maybe still it is just too much overkill on the mg content of the other B's? If so, maybe one could just cut way back on their daily dose of B-complex <maybe 1/5th or even 1/10th of a pill? I don't know..just guessing>. Even if you bought a low mg content B-complex, most of those have the dreaded "folic acid" in them. I atleast know one thing about myself, I feel worse taking a high dose B-complex.
  20. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    We all know that the B vitamins work synergistically, but has anyone seen a source for the claim that taking a B complex depletes B2?

    It's true that B2 is needed in the conversion of (at least some) other B vitamins to their active forms, but could this be circumvented by taking the active forms directly?

    How about taking the active B sublingually, so conversion is bypassed, and the vitamins are absorbed via diffusion?

    If activated B vitamins are still dephosphorylated before entering cells, maybe this won't help. That what I have been trying to find out, but I'm not getting anywhere. Seems vast knowledge of biochemistry is needed to answer these questions.
    justy likes this.

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