Hair Mineral Testing

[taniaaust1]

I've had several emails thanking me for my kind off to do everyone's hair test for free. I appologize if this is what my offer appeared. I thought it was quite clear - for a very specific few. Free for all can not be the case as my company has never made but a small profit so it can not afford to pay for everyone.

It was written clearly... from your other post I understood the offer was only to those who you had emailed results to to some peoples hair analyses. Fair enough putting that on the public board if there are more then just a couple of people involved and it showed people that you are also willing to give back in some return, for the info which some have given you. (lucky those who will get free hair test .. I feel happy for them).

Unfortunately nearly all of us have brain symptoms with the ME (easily confused due to mind fog, tiredness or whatever) so hence there understandly, would of been quite a few due to the ME who mistook what you said and thought you were offering everyone a free test.

 

[taniaaust1]

for anyone who is just entering this thread and not able to do all the reading back to see what people are on about. Here is cut and pasted how dogperson put the offer.. but with some parts Ive bolded to make sure what this offer says is clearer (also Ive broken up the post into two paragraphs rather then one, for easier reading and added a "" for word empathses)

All the hair chart that I've been given are from various labs around the world. Hairs to Health, Inc. can not vouch for the accuracy of those tests. My company has reviewed several people's charts and offered some general suggestions to guide energy production.

However, to better guide this process, my company would like to "review a current hair test" with the lab that I work with, Analytical Research Labs, Inc. in AZ. So to those few people that I've offered some general suggestions via private email , I will offer this - if you can contact my company through my website www.hairstohealth.com, my company will do a current hair test for you free of charge.

If ones brain didnt register the first half of her post.. it was a lot to take in.. (the info I quoted in first paragraph).. she mentioned that she (her company) couldnt vouch for the accurancy of other companies ..thou she'd given advice based on the info she was given in the other tests from people. .. and hence wanted to compare (review) results eg do another test.. (hence are offering their own test free to some, to compare a new hair test with their previous one).

I think it wasnt a lack of info which confused people but rather people getting confused due to an overload of info for brains to filter throu. It would of been very hard to make that clearer without explaining less (to which some then would of wanted more info)
.....

Some people are now offering to pay Christine for her analyses of their results etc. Take care... Im not sure but if she starts taking money after getting peoples attentions here, that may be a rule breach and seen by many as her trying to make money throu the site. I'd hate to see her be kicked off the site as someone offered and gave her money when she hasnt even asked for it, to do something for them.

With people offering her money, Id like a mod should comment on this situation before things get out of hand... and whether people are going to unintentionally make her do a rule breach here? even if she dont take money, the offers may make people think she is. Thanks

 

[Dreambirdie]

But, honestly, after 20 years of watching things like this appear on the horizon, I'm deeply skeptical.

We are nothing more than a curiosity, I'm afraid. Those of you who have shared the hair mineral analyses you paid for have been very generous in offering to satisfy that curiosity.

I am skeptical and curious myself. I don't think that getting my minerals into balance is going to cure me of ME. I doubt that it will have a big impact at lowering the viral load, which is the core of the problem. But I am eager to see what, if any, relief it can possibly bring me. And in my view any amount of relief, no matter how large or small, would be a welcome thing.

I already know the recurring pattern I have seen in previous my hair analyses, which no one locally has ever been able to help me decipher in any way that made sense. So I am glad to have the opportunity to give this a go with someone who has practical experience interpreting and working with the imbalances in these kind of tests.

If nothing happens, then I can just add it to my list (my longgggg list) of things that failed to give me results. I am used to that. I am going into this with my eyes open.

 

[CJB]

I am skeptical and curious myself. I don't think that getting my minerals into balance is going to cure me of ME. I doubt that it will have a big impact at lowering the viral load, which is the core of the problem. But I am eager to see what, if any, relief it can possibly bring me. And in my view any amount of relief, no matter how large or small, would be a welcome thing.

I already know the recurring pattern I have seen in previous my hair analyses, which no one locally has ever been able to help me decipher in any way that made sense. So I am glad to have the opportunity to give this a go with someone who has practical experience interpreting and working with the imbalances in these kind of tests.

If nothing happens, then I can just add it to my list (my longgggg list) of things that failed to give me results. I am used to that. I am going into this with my eyes open.

I'm rooting for y'all. I'm following all of the treatment protocols with interest. Congratulations on winning the free testing lottery.

 

[Undisclosed]

It would have been nice to know what Dog Person's operational definition of ME/CFS is. To really study a population, you need to define that population. When researchers study ME/CFS, they accept participants on the basis of a defined sample. Results need to be compared to another population. If Dog Person finds that a mineral level is off in the hair analyses she obtained from members, she can't really conclude much if she doesn't define a cohort and include a comparision to a "normal" population.

I think a huge question needs to be addressed here. Are the symptoms of ME/CFS due to inadequate nutrition or are the symptoms of ME/CFS due to the illness process rather than to inadequate nutrition? Then another question to answer, if people with ME/CFS have a consistent deficiency over the population, how much does the deficiency contribute to symptoms. Then one has to consider modifiable versus non-modifiable risk factors. We can modify our diets, so the necessary question is, does the population being studied here have the same dietary intake -- are they eating a healthy diet, a processed diet, a diet with no additives. We can modify health habits. Then you have to look at underlying disorders. Does the population have normal kidney function, normal/abnormal absorption of nutrients etc. Then there are environmental factors, does the population live in areas with lots of pollution or in a less polluted environment, are they exposed to mold etc. Do they drink water supplied by their city (which varies vastly in mineral/lead etc content, or do they drink mineral water. How much stress is the population under. Then you have to consider non-modifiable factors -- gender, genetics etc. Basically, there are a huge number of factors to consider before making any conclusions.

I wonder why there is a huge number of people out there that eat crap everyday, day in, day out, and feel fine. If our illness is down to some nutritional imbalance, why are we affected so badly, when others aren't. I remember when I was at University. My diet was awful. Junk food, lots of parties, no sleep, huge stress and I felt just fine. I later changed my diet and lifestyle radically, I exercised and probably did have more energy to do things. I eat better than anybody I know in my small social life, yet I am so ill. So a nutritional cause really doesn't make sense to me unless my body just isn't using the nutrition like it used to. If that's the case, any more improvements won't be helpful until any underlying cause is identified.

There are many unanswered questions here and I hope that Dog Person considers some of these issues while she is developing her hypothesis. This thread has provided lots of food for thought.

 

[Jarod]

I didn't think you were offering testing to everybody on the forum and seemed clear in your post. Thanks for showing up and being so patient.

Most everything I've tried for treating ME has been experimental. I usually go by feel, and often end up with problems anyway being a lab rat. :tongue:

This mineral tweaking is obviously not a complete science for ME and I wouldn't expect it to be. Nothing is for us! It's always trial and error unfortunately.

Fortunately hair can be tested and re-tested to monitor what is going on.

I'm all for the empirical treatments with relatively safe vitamins.

It's easy to misc-communicate on here. Everybody probably has a different native language for starters.....

let's try and learn something. I will certainly post how it's going.

I've already relieved most of my gastritis from just a couple of days increasing B2 and reducing methyfolate(I've also reduced selenium and some other things). Think you may be on to something for some, however everybody is different!

 

[Little Bluestem]

We are nothing more than a curiosity, I'm afraid. Those of you who have shared the hair mineral analyses you paid for have been very generous in offering to satisfy that curiosity.

I am glad to have someone else who is curious about the causes of and remedies for ME/CFS. There are so very few.

I feel I have been repaid for sharing my hair mineral analysis by the free interpretation that I received from Christine. It varied from that of my current dietitian and seems to be more relevant to my situation. At best her recommendations may resolve my ME, at least they may keep my liver from failing.

Once Christine has a set of hair mineral test results for people with ME from the same lab, and a lab that she is accustomed to working with, she may gain more insight and be able to refine her theory. She then would be able to offer better advice to any of the rest of you who are interested.

I think the public offer of some free tests could be seen as a sign of good faith to the whole community. Ill bet if she had done it privately, then posted what she learned there would have also been criticism. Sort of damned if you do, damned if you dont.

 

[adreno]

I did not get the sense that Christine is doing a formal study on CFS/ME. In the beginning when she asked for sample results, she didn't give her real name, which a researcher should do.

Also, a formal study would seek funding, to finance the tests for a larger cohort, have formal hypothesis, aso.

So yes, it seems we are a curiosity. Still, people have to start somewhere, and the preliminary analysis Christine is doing here, could ideally lead to a more formal study, if some patterns can be found.

When I said I wouldn't mind paying, I didn't mean for the study work she is doing here. I meant that I wouldn't mind paying to get a hair analysis done, just as I wouldn't mind paying for other tests, if there a chance it could lead to improvement. I can see it is problematic if she recruits customers off the site, and I don't know how a situation like this should be handled. Obviously it is not feasible for her to test every member of the board without payment.

I am deeply skeptical, as others are. Maybe it's just me, but I get the feeling that Christine doesn't understand our skepticism here; that we should be thankful for anyone who cares to help.

The problem is that we as a community have been presented with theory after theory, about the cause of our disease, and the treatment that will improve it, and none of them have panned out in a significant way. Still, we shouldn't be so mistrustful as to refuse any chance to get help.

So before I jump in with both feet and order any tests, I'm waiting to see her initial findings, and the writeup she has promised, whatever form. If I am then satisfied, I may order a hair mineral test.

I would like to hear what others think about this issue.

 

[Little Bluestem]

The private club happened by accident. If you read Christines initial post, you will see that she said that she wanted to combine the results in a database and let us know her observations. In my case she saw something that concerned her very much and felt she should tell me about. She contacted me by PM. I can only assume that was because she had not said that she would be commenting on individual results on the board and did not feel comfortable doing so. The additional information I supplied in my reply worried her more, so we talked by phone because it would have been too time consuming for her to write out everything she had to explain to me. Although very helpful to me, this was still not very efficient use of her time. Again, I can only assume there were similar scenarios that let her to contact others by PM.

I do not know how the members only chat came about. It was ending when it was pointed out to me. Since this functionality is here, I presume that was not the first time it was used. Again, it was not very efficient use of Christines time and seems to have created the appearance of a private club.

The point of my post was that this private club is not efficient. Christine needs to communicate with the board as a whole, not individual members, thus the article she is working on.

I was not sworn to secrecy. I was never very comfortable speaking for other people, even before I developed ME induced brain fog. I do think that Christine has posted that she also has some human clients and (has/has had) (a/a few) ME/CFS clients. Why he/she/they piqued her curiosity, I do not know. I am just glad for it.

She has also said that she is in the process of writing a paper with another animal nutritionist. It is simply my speculation that her co-author might not be too happy if she "spilled the beans" on some of their results before publication.

 

[Little Bluestem]

While none of the treatments may have panned out in a significant way, there are people who have seen definite improvement from Rich VanKs Simplified Methylation Restart Protocol and Freddds Active B protocol. Christines B2 based nutritional recommendations might be similarly helpful.

I think it makes sense for others to wait until the free tests and analysis are done. Things may be more clear to everyone at that time.

 

[SJB944]

The difficulty though is that there is consistency between Fred's and Rich's protocols and say generally with someone like Dr Sarah Myhill, but so far Christine's is contrary to all of these.

In particular, b-complex, taking minerals etc.

That doesn't make her right or wrong, but it does provide a conundrum if trying to fit her perspective in with approaches we might already be trying.





Sent from my GT-P1000T using Tapatalk

 

[brenda]

Although there are people who have seen definite improvement from Rich VanKs Simplified Methylation Restart Protocol and Freddds Active B protocol, there are also many others who have experienced many difficulties and or have failed to have any significant improvement. Christines theory could be the missing link for those who have not had improvement and therefore I believe that her line of thought is worth supporting to see if this is true. I tried Freddd`s protocol some time ago and knew that mercury was being released into my system so had to stop rather than listen to him to continue. I dont know whether it would work this time if I went low and slow - I was considering it before Christine came along.

Incidentally she identified herself to me when she offered to look at my Doctors Data hair mineral test from 2 years ago. Others had looked at it but no-one else said I had B2 deficiency and this was 2 years standing and 2 more years on a b complex, and recently on Douglas Labs.

I took her advice and started B2 and stopped the b complex and she was spot on. I have had my sleep restored which is no mean improvement, and other improvements too So I am extremely interested in her theory and very grateful indeed that she has made a generous offer to have a more up to date test done from her familiar lab and one I bleieve which does not wash the samples whereas many including DD do and which it has been shown causes distortions and the irregularities which make people skeptical of this test.

So although her research is in the early stages, I believe that she is really on to something big and I believe she has made this discovery because of her devotion to her pets.

She believes that it does not matter what the illness is called, if there is an energy problem the answer is to fix it first and she found that B2 deficiency is highly implicated for the production of ATP. This is what she is most concerned with. Her theory has very quickly indeed brought me out of a serious relapse to one of much improved function.

She came along here to sound things out and had a lot of hounding and I believe that she did show an understanding of the skepticism displayed when she did not react to it but showed patience instead.

If she is not given a chance here like the other board she mentioned, despite the communication and other problems, there are many who will be missing out on something which I believe is showing promise.

 

[brenda]

Kina

I wonder why there is a huge number of people out there that eat crap everyday, day in, day out, and feel fine. If our illness is down to some nutritional imbalance, why are we affected so badly, when others aren't. I remember when I was at University. My diet was awful. Junk food, lots of parties, no sleep, huge stress and I felt just fine. I later changed my diet and lifestyle radically, I exercised and probably did have more energy to do things. I eat better than anybody I know in my small social life, yet I am so ill. So a nutritional cause really doesn't make sense to me unless my body just isn't using the nutrition like it used to. If that's the case, any more improvements won't be helpful until any underlying cause is identified.

Christine has said that there are reasons why some people can eat crap day in day out when others can`t as there are factors involved like genes, nutritional status of the pregnant mother, environmental toxicity etc as well as the other cause which she feels she has identified which is B2 deficiency, a vitamin which is used in many of the body`s processes and which is easily depleted not least by sunlight. She is interested in having this cause recognised and remedied and especially recognised by the government in order to correct the problem as she sees it, of fortifying human and dog food with folic acid and other be vitamins.

New ideas which are rubbished are usually done so through ignorance and then eventually people do get educated but its so sad I think that the ones with the vision have to go through so much ****.

 

[adreno]

Being asked to expand and refine your ideas, is not going through ****. In any academic setting, you will be asked to defend your hypothesis. If someone wants to publish a paper, they better get ready for questions.

When people ask critical questions (as any good grade teacher would do), it gives you the opportunity to develop your theory further. It is healthy debate that catalyze this development.

If you want to present a strong hypothesis, it must be able to answer some basic questions. The hypothesis must be able to explain why some get sick and others don't. It must also be able to explain all the symptoms of the disease, not just some of them.

When Einstein made his relativity theory, he also presented a way in which he could be disproved. Incidentally, he wasn't (or hasn't yet been), but he may be one day.

Just remember that even though you see a 1000 white swans, you cannot conclude that all swans are white. You might see a black swan tomorrow. And so it is in science. Theories are "correct" until proven wrong. So the strongest theories, are those that can withstand the most attempts of being disproven.

Trying to disprove a theory is an honorable thing to do, and something the scientist himself should undertake. It has nothing to do with bashing, but everything to do with selecting the strongest theories.

 

[brenda]

Its you who brought them up by asking for them.

ps watch out I am discharging iron

 

[Jarod]

Its you who brought them up by asking for them.

ps watch out I am discharging iron

Hi Brenda,

Really happy you are getting better sleep and some improvements.

Mind if I ask how can you tell you are discharging iron?

 

[brenda]

Well you are right I don`t know for sure but Christine told me how I would feel if that is taking place and in fact it does happen on some days in between feeling so much better on others. I feel warm and aggitated.

 

[maddietod]

I would like to hear what others think about this issue.

I'm suffering from a certain kind of burnout. I'm tired of people who don't understand the complexities of CFS deciding to help with their cures.

I dropped my doctor recently, after he offered me a special water solution that raises glutathione. He'd tested it on himself, and he showed me his impressive results. He couldn't understand my reluctance to mess with this single part of the methylation cycle. Also troubling was that it was a pyramid setup, where he directly benefited from selling to me.

I've followed this thread from the beginning, and I've felt confused more often than enlightened. I've tried a lot of alternative therapies, and some have helped me enormously. Some have completely failed. But always, before starting, I clearly understood what I was trying to do. I don't have that sense here.

I've just gotten through the whole "B12 causes potassium to drop" issue. As far as I can tell, this was only figured out in the past few months, and I had been having low potassium issues for most of a year without knowing what was causing the knots in my muscles.

So here we have someone who wants to conduct research on us, but who knows nothing about CFS. She has a theory, but we haven't seen it. Rich asks great questions, and she answers in PMs. A few people support her "research" and are publicly offered free testing. One person has excellent short-term results from adding B2 while adjusting other supplements. Dog Person is sole owner of a hair analysis business, and she's the only person on here who interprets tests in this way.

I personally am worried by the lack of clear information, and by the advice to change supplements from someone with no understanding of the chemistry of CFS. At the same time, I'm all for alternative medicine, and all for us making our own decisions about what we want to experiment with.

The messiness here is that this looks like a softball sales pitch (not saying it is that, just that it looks like it to me), and PR doesn't have precise guidelines about this.

Best to all,

Madie

 

[Jarod]

Well you are right I don`t know for sure but Christine told me how I would feel if that is taking place and in fact it does happen on some days in between feeling so much better on others. I feel warm and aggitated.

That's what I meant. How you would describe that sensation of dumping iron.

Dreambirdie mentioned "dumping metals" after supplementing B2. I know how it feels to dump lead.(measured with urine test) Hard to describe at the moment, but I think I had a certain kind of sensation in mouth(cotton mouth?) and may have noticed in my stool.

 

[brenda]

Madie

I hear what you are saying and agree that there have been communication problems and lack of clarity. I also wish that pm`s would have been public in answer to questions, but I must say one thing, Christine has stressed that we should be working with a doctor and consulting him/her about suggestions she makes. Its the same with the other protocols here - they say see a doctor. Of course reality is that most of us cannot so we have to take the risk upon ourselves and thats just how things are even if we do have a doctor, we are so complicated that we have to make the final choice. Many want to have things more certain but today we cannot and I am not waiting till they are.

It may look like a softball sales pitch but I feel I must give the benefit of the doubt when we do not have any evidence that it is such and the fact is there is no evidence.