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Gut Dysbiosis/D-Lactate & Bifidobacterium

Discussion in 'Gastrointestinal and Urinary' started by jpredsoxdude00, Nov 16, 2017.

  1. jpredsoxdude00

    jpredsoxdude00

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    Hello, all-

    I have been experimenting with different strains of probiotics. I seem to have some sort of dysbiosis that is not apparent on my GI Effects panel. Overall, it suggests that I have high levels of almost all of the bacteria types, except Lactobacillus and Bifidobacterium (which are at normal levels). I have a long history of antibiotic usage, as I had ear and sinus infections frequently as a child, so I am sure this led some of the groundwork for the dysbiosis.

    I know for sure that I have problems with D-Lactate producing probiotics (I get weird, systemic issues) and Lactobacilli in general (tend to worsen bloating). I am thinking of using bifidobacterium infantis 35624 to see if it helps with my symptoms of bloating, sluggish bowel movements, etc. I was wondering if anybody knows if there is value to using Bifidobacteria probiotics to rebalance the flora, even if the numbers on the stool test are already adequate.

    Anybody with experience or knowledge on this matter?

    *Also note: I carry a heterozygous mutation in all of the FUT2 genes that are looked for, which apparently causes issues with maintaining bifidobacteria. I have read the research and understand that the tangible manifestations are at times ambiguous at best.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017
    ljimbo423 and kisekishiawase like this.
  2. jpcv

    jpcv Senior Member

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    SE coast, Brazil
    @Lassesen is the right guy to answer this question
     
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  3. Lassesen

    Lassesen

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    Timbuktu, Tombouctou, Mali
    Hi, the best starting point is to get a uBiome done. It is unlikely that you are high in ALL bacteria genus (a lower level of identification). The uBiome will identify the genus that are high.

    At a very high level, CFS patients always have a shift in the Firmicutes:Bacteroidetes ratio. But the shifts on an individual level can be up or down by as much as a factor of 10x. When there have been studies, the study group were found to have a higher ratio ("a decrease in several Firmicutes populations.")

    See this post https://cfsremission.com/2017/05/26/firmicutesbacteroidetes-ratio/

    But we need to react at the individual level:
    "Dairy intake was positively associated with the Firmicutes:Bacteroidetes ratio, and in particular Erysipelatoclostridium spp.,” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27694811

    So depending on your specific shift, you may wish to increase or decrease dairy intake. No magic recommendation for all -- specific recommendation based on your actual microbiome.
     
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  4. jpredsoxdude00

    jpredsoxdude00

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    @Lassesen I've seen UBiome before, I haven't done the test yet, though. GI Effects showed that most of the species in both the bacteroidetes and firmicutes were too high, but the overall ratio was shifted highly towards bacteroidetes dominance. Perhaps I still may benefit from the bifido and lactobacillus formula that avoids the d-lactate producing strains from Custom Probiotics.
     
  5. Lassesen

    Lassesen

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    Timbuktu, Tombouctou, Mali
    IMHO, d-lactate is part of the problem -- but those are often produced by the over growths. Lactobacillus do not an exclusive on d-lactate. From https://www.datapunk.net/

    Lactate
    PRODUCED AS ENDPRODUCT BY:



    USED AS NUTRIENT/ SUBSTRATE BY:
    So... Enterococcus and Escherichia probiotics will consume it. E.Coli is usually zero... so a major consumer of lactate is not there.

    See
    https://cfsremission.com/2016/09/28/enterococcus-probiotics/
    https://cfsremission.com/2014/04/16/my-favorite-probiotic-e-coli-nissle-1917-mutaflor/
    https://cfsremission.com/2016/03/01/symbioflor-2-another-e-coli-probiotic/

     

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