Guesstimating anaerobic threshold

[Valentijn]

So the wrist-only ones are more expensive then?

Yes, they use optics to determine heart rate instead of electrical signals. But there are two basic types, some with motion sensors and some without. The ones with motion sensors tend to cost a good bit more, but are more accurate for people who are exercising in a manner which swings their arms around a lot, since they detect that motion and compensate for it instead of attributing the movement to heart rate.

So if you're using it for more low-key activities (walking, sitting, standing), a wrist unit without any motion sensor should work fine, and be pretty decently priced. They get trashed regarding ratings because they really are not effective during real work-outs. But if no other problems are mentioned by reviewers, then that shouldn't be a problem for sedentary ME patients.

Costs for a wrist unit without a motion sensor seem to be US$50-150, whereas ones with a motion sensor are starting around $200. I got a Mio Alpha with motion sensor as a gift which was 150 euros (120 pounds on amazon.co.uk) - I love it, but wouldn't have been able to afford to buy it myself.

 

[Keela Too]

I now have a Mio Alpha - It will run all day (16+ hours) on one over night recharge...

I also don't like it round my wrist as it seems to need to be tight. So I wear it round my ankle - the strap is too short of course but I just tuck it into the top of a sports sock... works a treat!

It beeps at me if I go over.

I can also see a continuous read-out by using the Endomondo App on my phone. The Mio gives out a bluetooth signal that the phone picks up on. Endomondo also collates all the daily info, and gives me graphs and things at the end of the day, that the watch itself can't do.

Works for me....

 

[Keela Too]

PS I bought the Mio Alpha on ebay. I got it cheaper than list price from a seller in Lithuania - real deal and no problems - except I had to pay import duty which added to the list price a bit.

 

[MeSci]

Yes, they use optics to determine heart rate instead of electrical signals. But there are two basic types, some with motion sensors and some without. The ones with motion sensors tend to cost a good bit more, but are more accurate for people who are exercising in a manner which swings their arms around a lot, since they detect that motion and compensate for it instead of attributing the movement to heart rate.

So if you're using it for more low-key activities (walking, sitting, standing), a wrist unit without any motion sensor should work fine, and be pretty decently priced. They get trashed regarding ratings because they really are not effective during real work-outs. But if no other problems are mentioned by reviewers, then that shouldn't be a problem for sedentary ME patients.

Costs for a wrist unit without a motion sensor seem to be US$50-150, whereas ones with a motion sensor are starting around $200. I got a Mio Alpha with motion sensor as a gift which was 150 euros (120 pounds on amazon.co.uk) - I love it, but wouldn't have been able to afford to buy it myself.

Great info, thanks.

 

[Little Bluestem]

I was told that a good estimation was (220 - age) x 0.6

I do not like this because it assumes that everyone of the same age has the same anaerobic threshold.

 

[Little Bluestem]

I am fine with the chest strap. The one I have now is comfortable though I had one that was not!

What brand and model is the one you have now?

 

[Keela Too]

I do not like this because it assumes that everyone of the same age has the same anaerobic threshold.

Previously I had said:
I was told that a good estimation was (220 - age) x 0.6​

Actually I totally agree. However short of getting a 2 day CPET test done, this is a reasonable starting point.

Dr VanNess spoke here in N.Ireland and he actually suggested 110 as a good ball park starting point... he then explained that this could be adjusted up or down depending on the individual's responses.

To be honest in biology (I was a biology teacher) there are rarely fixed cut offs in any metabolic process, usually instead it is a tapering of one process into another.

 

[Little Bluestem]

Jennie Spotila wrote an article that discussed the use of the Borg Rating of Perceived Exertion to regulate exercise.

I am planning to get an anaerobic threshold/lactate test (but not VO2max). In reality the AT varies from day to day, but it will give me something to work with and not PEM me like a 2-day CPET would.

 

[Keela Too]

Like you I wouldn't do the 2 day test as I think it would make me permanently worse.

I also find that even though I wear a HR monitor constantly it is incredibly difficult to keep HR below a certain level. Getting dressed or showered is always the toughest, because although I do both seated, it is difficult to break certain actions into smaller units of effort.

Although I aim to keep my HR below 100 as far as possible, I find that my daily max is never below 120, and even with care can reach 140. (These must be momentary spikes presumably - as I don't always actually "see" these numbers by looking).

I also use Endomondo to collate info - and have set it up to tell me how long I spend in different HR zones. From this I can tell that I usually collect around 20 minutes above 100 bpm each day, and often 3 or 4 above 120bpm.

I can also check in on Endomondo online and see the data collected to date (without having to stop the clock as it were....) and so this can quickly give me an idea of how my body is reacting to certain events.

I went to the dentist yesterday morning for example and that pushed my readings (even at total rest) up for the remainder of the day... I knew then to rest up a bit more carefully....

PS I'm not expecting that others do all this stuff... Numbers fascinate me - I was a science teacher, and this just helps me feel I'm doing something constructive.

 

[Keela Too]

@Little Bluestem - Couldn't make that link work. Jennie writes well so I'd be curious to read what she says.

 

[Revel]

I'm currently lusting after a Fitbit Charge HR (not released yet in the UK and too expensive for my pocket).

Wondering if I promise to be good next year, Santa will give me an advance (in 'plum' please, size 'small' ).

I have a little Bowflex at the moment but it doesn't show HR unless you make contact with the sensor buttons on the watch face. Unfortunately, it doesn't always register, especially if my hands are cold. By the time I can feel something is amiss, it's usually too late and I'm heading for the floor.

I really need a monitor that has HR on constant show so that I can see at a glance how I am doing.

 

[Keela Too]

I really need a monitor that has HR on constant show so that I can see at a glance how I am doing.

I got the Mio from this seller on ebay. I did have to pay import duty though.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MIO-ALPHA...926?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3cee90b206

PS... Or I had to pay import duty on something .... hmmmm it might have been another item from USA now that I think about it again. Not sure. Ooops.. sorry really can't remember now!

 

[Revel]

Thanks, @Keela Too. I shall check out the Mio Alpha, although it looks a little chunky for my tiny wrists. Don't you draw strange looks, wearing it on your ankle, especially if the alarm goes off in public? They'll think you've broken your ASBO .

I must do something though. This morning I just changed from PJs into sweat pants (a subtle fashion difference, totally lost on my OH) and went over my threshold by 40bpm. Had to go lie down to get it back under the wire - might as well have kept the PJs . .

 

[Keela Too]

In this weather, if I'm out I have on thick socks and furry lined boots.... so the alarm really isn't audible!!
(Well not unless the room is silent, and then it only gives a single beep every 10s or so - which isn't enough time for anyone to locate its origin!)

 

[MeSci]

A friend recommended this one, but I can't afford that sort of price. I found a used one very cheap on Amazon.com, only to find that they won't ship to the UK!

So I have managed to win a New Balance FitPlus in an ebay UK auction for just £4 plus postage. It has mixed reviews, but so has the one my friend recommended.

I'm waiting for delivery now. If it's rubbish, at least I haven't broken the bank!

 

[Sushi]

What brand and model is the one you have now?

I have a Polar that is about 6 years old. I like it...except the problem with changing batteries.

Sushi

 

[Little Bluestem]

@Little Bluestem - Couldn't make that link work. Jennie writes well so I'd be curious to read what she says.

Opps, it doesn't work for me either. It looks like a 2010 article, so it must no longer be available. I deleted the link from the above post.

The Borg Rating of Perceived Exertion Scale is still out there. The article says

Patients should not exceed RPE of 13 to 15, corresponding to the exertion feeling “somewhat hard.”

The page I am looking at now says that "somewhat hard" is 12 to 14. It also say you can get a fairly good estimate of your heart rate by multiplying the rating by 10. My heart rate has no business being in the 120 - 140 range.

It also says the actual heart rate can vary quite a bit depending on age and physical condition. I am now wondering how useful this would be for people with ME, but here it is for anyone who wants to give it a try.

 

[Keela Too]

I'm not convinced the Borg scale is much use for ME.

I can be quietly doing something and not feel the activity is in any way over exerting, but suddenly the HR monitor is beeping at me and it could be as high as 150 without me perceiving any exertion.

It might be useful for normals, and for effort that can be maintained for a period of time.... ??

 

[charlie1]

I think actually the formula is used to denote when the body starts aerobically exercising.... and this is the same for all.

Oh man, I find this whole AT stuff so confusing! I thought the .6 formula was for estimating your AT (Anaerobic threshold) . I thought once we go over our threshold we are not in the aerobic zone anymore and have gone into the inefficient ANaerobic zone. And I thought that healthy people had a larger aerobic zone therefore enabling them to work/exercise longer before they entered the anaerobic respiration zone. What's up...which is it? I've not yet read any of the links in the thread so maybe there's info in there re: POTS and AT.

For me it is an "empty, hollow" feeling in my chest. As soon as I feel that I absolutely must stop.

For me, if I'm upright, my legs feel like that and I I know I need to sit/lie down NOW. If I don't heed the warning, I'll experience moderate pain in my chest and will last for quite awhile followed by big time brain fog.

The Mio gives out a bluetooth signal that the phone picks up on. Endomondo also collates all the daily info, and gives me graphs and things at the end of the day, that the watch itself can't do.

I have recently bought a Mio Alpha that I'm still getting used to. I've learned that my HR can fall into the low 40's at times (for a short time) when I'm relaxing so not sure what to make of that. I'm going to look into the Endomondo so thanks for that info I wish my Mio was back-lit b/c there are times I can't read the info.

 

[charlie1]

This morning I just changed from PJs into sweat pants (a subtle fashion difference, totally lost on my OH) and went over my threshold by 40bpm. Had to go lie down to get it back under the wire - might as well have kept the PJs . .

Since POTS is involved for me (and you), this happens so much. I'd love to start the exercise program according to Betsy Keller, Stacy Stevens etc. but I've got to get POTS under control first.

Thanks, @Keela Too. I shall check out the Mio Alpha, although it looks a little chunky for my tiny wrists. .

For that very reason, I bought the Mio Alpha Indigo. Too bad it isn't back lit though b/c there's times I can't read it and need more lighting.